Fishbuster - the reason I sanded down the fillets is because they were crap! 'Scuse the language in this family-oriented site but there's no other word! I know that only I am aware of how they look, but it still hurts - especially when I see some of the inspirational results other guys like yourself have achieved. I think my ambition exceeds my skills level at this point - but I persist!
As for trying something new rather than sticking with the proven - well, if those who came before had not done so we would all still be paddling craft made of seal skin stretched over frames of driftwood and whale-bones, I believe!
I must say I am impressed with the amount of interest this subject of fillets has given rise to and I intend to make up some samples of various kinds of joints using the new product noted above, just to see how it performs. Stay tuned. Meantime, the use of a plastic bag or some similar hi-tech approach appeals in the eternal quest for the perfect fillet!
Despite much of what has been written, however, it does rather beg the question - what is the more important element in a joint, the 'bridging' fillet, or the fibreglass tape and resin applied over it?
Regards and thanks to all for your inputs...
Lol from Oz
Lol, I had same problem, fillets looked probably about like yours, and I spent some time trying to smooth them out with Dremel, sanding, scraping, etc. Still not great everywhere but I've moved on to the rest of the boat because I realized eventually that it's not that big of a deal.
Meanwhile, I learned a lot from my mistakes, and from this forum, and would do much better next time. Don't make the fillets too big, the plastic bag trick, masking tape, soak the tape before applying.
The nice thing about stitch and glue is that anytime you want to, you can go back and take a do-over.
Very late in my Pax project, I discovered "empty" caulk tubes (you can Google to find many sources). This makes for very fast, neat fillets. The empty cartridges run around $2.50 each - worth their weight in gold IMO. My next build, I'll use this exclusively for the fillets. You don't even need masking tape to do a neat job. Just a thin bead, and gently flatten it out with the fiberglass tape.
I began the cauk-tube technique when I got to the cockpit area. What a difference in appearance! Very little wasted material as well. Give it a try!
great advice, Megavolt. I have found an almost identical and near-perfect solution. I located, after much searching, some cheap ($2.50) Cake Icing and Decorating Sets in a local budget store that sells, among other things, cooking utensils, etc. They resemble plastic hypo syringes, have a bayonet-screw cap at the filling end, and the nozzles are screwed in the the dispensing end. They are about 4" in length and 1-1/2" diameter. Capacity is 150 ml, about half a cupful. Various types of nozzles are included ranging from very fine to quite flat and broad. I have tried this out with some filleting mix and, like you, found it very fast, neat, and above all leaving a smooth attractive-looking fillet. The answer to a maiden's prayer - and the cured epoxy that's left inside the walls of the syringe will crack-off so it can be re-used - but just to be on the safe side I bought four! And as a bonus I found that I was able to use the thing very smoothly, two fingers inside the little rings at the top, thumb pressing down on the cylinder - thereby indicating that I would make a fine medical doctor!
Wordsmith
I just finished filleting the skeg on my Skerry. I have run out of Cello-Fil so only had the wood flour. But since I chose to make the bottom more durable with an extra layer of fibreglas and a graphite-silica coating I decided to add a little graphite to my fillet mix to keep the color scheme right. Using the freezer bag trick (and an old spoon my wife doesn't know Ive appropriated) the fillets came out OK...rough compared to having had silica to add to the mixture but I was patient and waited the suggested 3 hours and smoothed them out nicely with some alcohol and a gloved finger. Very smooth! And I did tape the scribed lines I had layed out as I knew that once I started epoxying the skeg with that black goo on a black hull I was going to lose my reference marks. I ran a second row of tape right next to the first row and after I screwed down the skeg, wiped up the squeeze out, and waited an hour, I peeled the first line of tape off leaving a 1/2 inch space for the fillets next to the skeg. The spoon I chose perfectly smoothed out the fillet to the tape line and any excess was easy to scrape up off the tape and put back in the cup. There may be some minor sanding and of course the extra fine steel wool to match the texture of the bottom but it looks good and I may just paint the skeg the off-white color the 2nd and 3rd strakes will be when I get to that stage. If I ever learn how to add photos to this I'll show you how well the scuppered inwales came out and the laminated black walnut and Doug Fir breast hook laminates I glued up to overlay on the supplied breasthooks from CLC.Anyway I'm having a great time and look forward to flipping the boat and starting on the major fillet work, after I do a little more fine planeing and sanding on the undersides of the outwales. I may throw some epoxy on them too since gravity will be on my side!
DocChicago
When building my SW17 I followed steps for fillets and layed down glass and epoxied when fillet was still wet. When spreading epoxy I spread my fillets out. Can you wait and let fillet dry first so it stays in seams?
Phil
Phil - I had PRECISELY the same problem with the Ches 17LT. What were quite nice fillets along the hull bottom and side chines distorted and spread out in every direction as I laid the cloth on top and painted on the wet epoxy. Never again! From my hard-won experience with the Ches (and suggestions, ideas, and references from builders here) I intend to do the following on the next SW 17 build:
- tape edges where fillets are to be placed
- paint (using roller) inside taped area with epoxy thinned with 10% diluent (TPRDA) ensuring inside wired-together cut edges of ply panels are coated to promote absorption of epoxy from fillets
- tab fillets (some call it 'welding') between wires to hold hull shape
- remove wires after curing, then complete filleting with full-width fillets
- allow to harden, then lightly sand fillets
- apply tape and epoxy over fillets, pre-wetting tape with roller to minimise over-use of epoxy.
It sounds a little more time-consuming but by all accounts will enable me to produce near-perfect fillets, both visually satisfactory and structurally sound. I have trialled the use of my cake-icing syringes noted above, with excellent results, and possibly offering a bit more control than the other great idea, the icing bag trick!
Cheers..
Wordsmith
Wordsmith,
That's a good procedure, but you can save some time & trouble by not diluting the epoxy precoat and, rather than allowing the fillets to harden and sanding them, brushing them smooth with epoxy and let them just firm up a bit before applying the tape.
The key to avoiding Phil's & your problems with smearing is wetting out the tape before applying it over the fillet. Then you have only a light pressure on the firmed-up fillets, not enough to distort them.
This way you get to avoid the wait for a complete cure and the time & effort of sanding the fillets. It's also a better bond.
Have fun either way,
Laszlo
Thanks Wordsmith and Laszlo, next winter I will be building a Tandem so I will apply everthing I learned from my first boat and this forum, I just started varnishing, and can say building a boat is not as much fun as paddling, but I certainly enjoyed building her and look forward to next winters project. Now if we could have an early thaw:>) Over April break I'm planning on paddling in VA and visiting CLC. I'm wondering should I park a few blocks away? My wife says my boat looks good but I don't think I want to park to close to pro built boats.
Thanks again for the suggestions
Phil
I have been enjoying this discussion of the fillets process that I will be trying for the first time soon. I’m a urologist and think that a cather tipped syringe might be used as a "pastry bag" or "caulkgun" when applying a fillet. These are plastic 60cc syringes with tips like caulking guns that are disposable and available from medical supply companies. Do you think these may be useful?
Syringes are very useful in applying epoxy. CLC sells them, for those who don't have access to medical supply houses. They have the great advantage of not bursting, the way ziplocks & pastry bags can.
Their main disadvantage is cleaning them out again. I can usually use one 3, maybe 4 times, before it needs to get tossed.
Don't know what a cather tip is (and considering the body parts involved, maybe I don't want to), so I can't say how useful that would be :-)
Laszlo
THE CATHETER TIP LOOKS JUST LIKE THE TIP ON A CAULKING GUN.
Having started this popular - and to me at any rate informative - discussion I might have a final word. To Teoctom - your syringe idea will work fine - I have been experimenting for some time with my 'Cake Icing Set' 'syringe' (almost a toy version of your professional item -see post above) and it works just fine. I can produce quickly and easily near-perfect fillets. Just two points, if I may - firstly, your stated syringe capacity of only 60ml is quite small and you will quickly run out of epoxy (mine is 150cc and still needs refilling on any decent-size run of filleting). To avoid constant filling and re-filling may I suggest you get a helper and make up enough epoxy in one hit to allow the helper to re-fill the empty syringe while you make the joints with the other. This will save a lot of time and messing around! Second - push the syringe tip along, towards, and into the empty joint being filled rather than pulling it away with the epoxy behind the tip. In this way you will be forcing the epoxy into the gap between the two panels being joined, rather than allowing gravity to do its stuff, and the tip itself if cut to size and shape will give the sought-after rounded concave section. This can then be left as-is for a perfect fillet with no need to tool it or dress it up any more, which in my experience has always lead me to disaster - and the search for 'a better way'!
Enjoy and good luck with the build...
Wordsmith