# Tippy canoe, seats in wrong place? **URL:** \ **Category:** Builder's Forum\ **Created:** [June 7, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://forum.clcboats.com/t/tippy-canoe-seats-in-wrong-place/41005 "2013-06-07T11:02:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tyler\_Gebhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Tyler\_Gebhardt](https://forum.clcboats.com/u/Tyler_Gebhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://forum.clcboats.com/t/tippy-canoe-seats-in-wrong-place/41005/1 "2013-06-07T11:02:33Z")
Hey guys, Tyler here. I'm new to this forum. I have been building a cedar strip canoe for the past 3 years, a day here and a day there. I've finally finished the canoe a few days ago and took it out on the water. I might also note that it is not a canoe provided by CLC boats. However, I am here because I feel that my question may be answered here (I also plan on building one of the kayak kits in the near future). So, the problem.... I have a 16' tandem canoe (I think it's the "Companion). I've installed the seats in what I thought was an ok position, plenty of room at the bow and far enough forward at the stern. Both seats are 9 1/2" to the bottom of the seat to the hull as per canoecraft's reccomendation. My girlfriend and I took the boat out for its maiden voyage and found that it was REALLY tippy. I am an avid boater and have paddled many different canoes, kayaks and ADK guideboats and even I thought it was tippy. So we decided to kneel, it was a little bit better not much though. Then I had my girlfriend sit directly on the hull behind her seat while I sat on my seat. This worked very well, it was still a tad tippy bit withen my tolerances. I am wondering what the deal is? Is 9 1/2 to high? Should I move the seats closer to the thwart? Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks, Tyler ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_Brubaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Edward\_Brubaker](https://forum.clcboats.com/u/Edward_Brubaker)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.clcboats.com/t/tippy-canoe-seats-in-wrong-place/41005/2 "2013-06-07T13:49:27Z")
My understanding is that tippiness (otherwise called initial stability) is determined by the corss section profile, the overall width and the hight of your center of gravity relative to hull.  Kneeling was a good idea but does not lower your center of gravity that much.  Sitting as your wife did lowers the center of gravity even more.  Many canoes are made to be super stable.  Some are designed to be less stable, and perhaps more responsive.  You can not change the hull shape, so... I would consider lowering the seats 2 or 3 inches if that is doable without major work.  Or just plan on kneeling and getting accustomed to a more responsive canoe.   How far you can tip before going over (secondary stability) may actually be good despite initial stability.  ---
**Author:** ![Tyler\_Gebhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Tyler\_Gebhardt](https://forum.clcboats.com/u/Tyler_Gebhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://forum.clcboats.com/t/tippy-canoe-seats-in-wrong-place/41005/3 "2013-06-07T14:15:53Z")
Thank you for the valuable input. lowering the seats is definitely doable, all it requires is new bolts, spacers and probably trimming the seat lengths (Thankfully, i didn't mount them through the hull and hung them from the gunnel). I did test the secondary stability as you called it. I was shocked to find out that I can really roll this boat right onto it's side, almost up to the gunnel without tipping over. I do wonder if this design was meant to be more of a responsive canoe like you are describing. I probably won't get to drop the seats for another week or so but will check back in once I do. ---
**Author:** ![pag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pag](https://forum.clcboats.com/u/pag)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:47am UTC](https://forum.clcboats.com/t/tippy-canoe-seats-in-wrong-place/41005/4 "2013-06-08T10:47:49Z")
Tyler, Multiply your girlfriend's weight by 9 1/2" and then divide that number by the sum of her weight and your weight.  The answer will be how much you should lower both seats to achieve the same stability as having her sit in the bottom while you sit on a seat.  If you do not want to make it that stable, you will in time get used to the apparent instability.  A friend and I used to race a 20 ft rowboat we built.  We started out carrying 80 lbs. of lead in the bilge.  After a race or two we took it out and never used it again.  Just a metter of practice.  You might also try some temporary seats (boxes set in the bottom) that you can trim until you get a height you like.  Good luck. Paul