I capsized my Jimmy Skiff II

Builder's Forum
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A few weeks ago, I took my JS out for a solo sail in a pretty healthy breeze of around 12-15 mph. I was tacking back and forth for about 20 minutes without any problems. On what ended up being my final tack, the sail filled with wind right after I came about, before I even had a chance to control it with the sheet. So I was dumped into the water in about 3-4 seconds.

Luckily, I was in sheltered waters, in a fairly busy area close to the boat ramp. I first tried swimming the boat into shallow water near the shore (roughly 50 ft away), but it would not move. It turned out the top of the mast had become buried in the mud. Some local fishermen came to my aid and helped me get the boat upright. Boat was largely undamaged but not so much my pride.

I completed this boat about 6 months ago after taking an April class at CLC. So I’m still learning how to sail it. I suspect the cause of the capsize was that the sheet got tangled in the mounting bracket for the motor this was located on the transom. I had the compact, lightweight all-electric “eLite” motor made by ePropulsion on this boat. It’s 1.5 hp and works great for my needs, which is to just help with going to/from the trailer and to/from the dock.

Which brings me to the main reason for this post. I built this boat mainly to sail, but the motor is essential for docking/trailering. The center of the transom is where the motor is meant to go on these boats, but that is also where the rudder needs to go. So it seems to me that we have an inherently challenging situation right from the start.

I tried addressing this by mounting the motor off to one side of the transom (where it sits somewhat higher than the middle of the transom), but it can be tricky to control the throttle on the motor while also trying steer with both the motor and rudder at the same time. Also with this arrangement, the rudder still hits the prop on a sharp turn because there’s not enough space between them. And finally, lines can get tangled in this motor mounting bracket sitting relatively high on the transom, as I learned the hard way.

I’m thinking of installing an actual outboard motor bracket Amazon.com: Marinebaby Boat Outboard Motor Bracket, Aluminum Boat Engine Support 20 HP : Sports & Outdoors.

My reasoning is that I want to get the motor and bracket completely clear of the transom and away from the rudder. I’m waiting for the bracket to arrive. I know it will add unwanted weight to the stern as well as detract from the aesthetics of the boat but I don’t know what else to do.

Any insights or advice about this issue of positioning a small outboard motor on a JS II are most appreciated.

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The JSII was not designed to be sailed and motored on the same outing was it? It certainly doesn’t look like one could expect to steer with the rudder and an outboard at the same time. If you have to have them on the same outing, you could stow the rudder or the engine whichever is not in use. It would take a couple minutes and some space in the cockpit, but I think that is your best option. Your boat will work properly sailing and motoring and will not require modifications.

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A couple of quick comments. First, on small craft, the main sheet getting snagged during tack or jib is a pretty common cause for a swim. I am not familiar with the JS2 so can’t give any specific advice but look at how the mainsheet is rigged, and see if there is an alternative like mid-boom sheeting that results in less line hanging down over the transom.
My second thought is that small boats like the JS2 don’t need a motor when sailing. My Goat Island Skiff is roughly the same size. I use either oars or a single SUP paddle depending upon how far I have to paddle before raising sail. With the oars, I can easily make 3.5 mph with limited effort.
Thirdly, if you insist on using a motor while sailing, that motor mount is way too big for your boat. The preferred method is to use a transom cut out per the picture. This is a GIS but not mine. This may require you to add additional structure/framing depending on the design. When motoring, the preferred technique is to lock the motor straight ahead and use the tiller to steer the boat. If the rudder can possibly hit the prop, then buy a shroud that goes around the prop. These are readily available for most motors. Hope that this helps.

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I saw the elite at the Annapolis show I think. Does it have a quick release mount? I’d try hard to set up to yank the motor and have a secure storage in the boat maybe with a wooden chock and a shock cord hold down. May not work but just a thought.

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Robert,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the eLite does have a quick release mount but when underway, I’d prefer to keep it mounted in the up position (ie prop out of the water) rather than trying to stow it. There’s little stowage space in the cockpit and it would be difficult to tie down securely, I think.

But I must say that I love this little motor. 1.5 hp is all that is needed to move the JSII along at a decent clip and it is also relatively quiet. And again, this motor is only intended for use getting to and from the dock, or when the wind dies and I’m a long way from the boat ramp.

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Mark,

Thanks for your thoughts, most appreciated. I am going to take your suggestion and move the traveler line forward, away from the stern and the motor mount, and hopefully this will reduce the chance of entanglement.

Agree that small boats like the JS2 generally don’t need a motor when sailing, but I think it depends on the situation. If I were launching from a remote/uncrowded shoreline without much boat traffic, then rowing/paddling out would be a lot more feasible. In my case, I launch the boat from my trailer at a busy boat ramp and then tie up at an equally busy dock in order to park the car. I have been successful sailing directly off the dock on one occasion when things were not busy, but generally there’s too many other boats around to try this.

Hence the need for the motor to launch, get underway, and get back to the trailer. Thanks for the photo showing the cut out for mounting the motor, offset from the centerline of the transom. Great idea. I’ve included a photo showing my arrangement. which shows how I’ve mounted the eLite at a point on the transom that is a bit higher than the transom center point. I was worried this is too high but when I’m sitting close to the stern the prop is properly submerged.

Finally, to your point about the motor mount - you are spot on - it is way too big for the boat. I received it from Amazon two days ago and not only is it too big but also way too stiff as the springs are made for a much heavier motor. Needless to say, I will be returning it to Amazon.

I am going to take one of the suggestions here and move the traveler line forward, away from the stern, to lessen the chance of entanglement going forward. We’ll see how it works out. But I will keep the transom cut out in mind in the event I go that route in the future.

Thanks,
Ray

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Aaron,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree that the JSII is really not designed to be sailed and motored at the same time. I have tried your suggestion of essentially swapping the motor and rudder back and forth as each is needed, but it is quite awkward. I’m going to stay with my existing arrangement of mounting the motor off to one side of the transom, using it for propulsion but steering with the rudder (see photo). But I’m also going to move the rope “traveler” forward a bit, so that it’s more distant from the stern and therefore less chance of getting the traveler line or main sheet tangled in the motor bracket. I’m able to move the motor far enough away from the rudder that there’s minimal contact between the two when the rudder is hard to that side.

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I guess your sheet does hang up on that motor! Nice looking motor, but still…
I stumbled upon this manual device:

Never seen one in the flesh, and would hope that the length behind the pivot point relative to the distance forward of the pivot point would minimize the oscillation as it’s cranked, but this might give you sufficient propulsion and also be easy to stow.

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That is one of the oddest things I’ve seen. I’ve no doubt that it will move your boat, but it’s nowhere near as efficient as a set of oars. First, it uses only the muscles of one arm, mostly the bicep. Rowing with oars uses 2 arms, the back, shoulders and chest and possibly the legs. That’s a lot more muscles to throw at the problem resulting in less chance of wearing out or even damaging a muscle.

Second, it’s a direct drive with no gearing and a fixed propeller pitch. That means to go faster you have to crank faster. There’s also no capacity to adjust for the different relative speeds of the water caused by the boat’s acceleration so it’s pretty much limited to peak efficiency at only one speed. It’s also impossible to coast without it acting as a brake. And you will want to coast when your poor bicep cries “Uncle!”.

Third, you have to sit in one spot and one position to use it. Not only is this fatiguing, but the position is far enough back that the boat will be dragging its transom causing a lot of drag.

Finally, the shape of the shaft not only has potential for oscillation, since it can’t be changed there’s also a really good chance for cavitation.

I have to agree with Mark that oars would be the best solution. If you can’t use oars to row you might want to consider a sculling oar to scull yourself to and from the ramp. But whatever you end up doing, avoid this contraption.

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Can’t say I disagree with your analysis!

Only thing going for it is it might be easier to stow.

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I have rigged my floor in the Jimmy Smith to hold the oars in cleats. Thus when launching I can row out, raise sail and sail. That is not too hard. I used to build an 18ft scow called a Y-Flyer. It had no motor. I had one canoe paddle. We would launch at the bulkhead marina boat ramp (2-3 ramps) in Charleston and paddle out away from the crowd and sail away. That motor you have is too big. It is likely light but looks top heavy. Its no wonder the lines got tangled.

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The standard JSII has 2 rowing stations, each with its own oarlock sockets.

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If you get an additional set of horn oarlocks for the unused sockets, you can securely stow the oars up on the gunnels and leave the inside of the boat clear. No mods to the hull needed.

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That’s what I did on my Peapod. The horns are in the front sockets. When I want to row I lift the oar out of the horn and push it aft through the closed oarlock until it’s in the correct position. Reverse the process for stowing. Just be sure to put a retaining pin or something through the hole at the bottom of the oarlock shaft to keep it from going overboard.

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I do much the same thing as Laszlo suggests with my Passagemaker Dinghy. My straight bladed oars, which is what I bring along when sailing, have the plastic collars which capture the oarlocks on the oar. I also have a set of the open oarlocks I use with the curved blade oars when I’m just rowing and have left the sailing rig ashore. Photo attached. This keeps the oars out of the way while sailing, but ready to put into use at the drop of a hat if needed.

By golly, it is much easier to attach photos now!

…Gramps/Michael S

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Garland,

Wow, that’s crazy! Never seen anything like that before. Doesn’t seem very practical as you’d need to dedicate one hand to it at all times - leaving the other hand to do everything else on the boat. On the plus side, with a bit of modification, it might also double as a kitchen hand mixer or a fan to keep part of your body cool in the summertime LOL. On a serious note, Thanks for the suggestion though.

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Laszlo, Thanks - great suggestion - I’ll probably do this.

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Michael - thanks! excellent suggestion - I’m going to do this.

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Thanks David. Based on the replies here, it looks like I need to get my rowing arms in better shape. Seems like a better way to go then worry about the motor at all. Especially given the likelihood of flooding the motor in the event of a capsize.