I’ve built a NE Dory with a balanced lug rig, and I’m finding it challenging to sail anywhere near the wind. I’ve breezed through a Reddit topic on this subject and read comments from sailors about how it’s important to keep the sail properly placed (halyard & downhaul at the right locations, nice & tight on the mast) to balance it with the daggerboard, and I plan to take this advice to heart the next time out. I also read that keeping the stern riding high helps (will also take this to heart). Granted, the last attempts were not ideal conditions (gusty winds on the ICW in NC, blowing directly up the channel, with the channel not very wide & sand bars on each side to run aground on; not to mention about 550 lbs of people in the boat, including in the stern seat). Any other advice is welcome, thanks!
So I have to ask, how experienced are you at sailing? Have you had any lessons? Sailing is a complex skill that you can’t really learn from watching videos. Many inexperienced sailors who build boats struggle because they lack the experience to properly set it up and even if set up perfectly, they lack the skill to sail it properly. The NED is an excellent design that will sail well if properly set up and sailed. NOTHING beats a few hours of instruction by an experienced sailor.
Definitely not very experienced; I’ve rented a few boats over the years, but just for vacation-concurrent outings. I doubt that I’ve spent 20 hrs sailing over the last 40 years! I’m looking into sailing lessons now (in the area of Columbus OH).
First, let me say that I’ve had my NE Dory for about 10 years now and sail it frequently. Also that I love the boat. Also, that I’ve been an avid sailor for nearly 60 years, thousands of hours sailing and racing all sorts of boats, including at least a dozen different dinghy/Portsmouth type class boats, and also a Grumman canoe with a sail rig. With the exception of my CLC chess 17 and its Windsail (which can’t even do 90 degrees relative to the wind, but isn’t designed to), the lug rigged NE Dory is the worst performing upwind boat I’ve ever owned, especially in wind less than 3 kts.. But that doesn’t mean it is “bad” - I can make about 45 degree tack angles with the lug rig. The boat also doesn’t come about easily - the high angle of the rudder pivot causes a lot of braking at high rudder angles. I, and others, have previously discussed this in the forum. Careful rudder, stearing, listing and sail trim techniques that help bring the boat about while tacking. So, I’ll say that even with the standard lug rig the NE Dory is a perfectly good sailboat, and will get you where you are going, no matter the point of sail. And I appreciate the trade-off the lug rig provides for ease of rig set up, and ease of stowing onboard while underway.
I’m sure the sloop rig NE Dory probably performs better upwind, though I’ve never sailed one. I say that not just because it is probably obvious based on rig type, but also because I’ve modified my NE Dory to be a gaff-rigged sloop. I used the top 1/3rd of a Flying Scot sail to recut it into a jib for the dory (luff wire in the jib serves as a forestay), and made a gooseneck to connect the forward end of my boom to the mast. I now have two halyards - one for the throat of the mainsail and one for the midpoint on the gaff spar. I added shrouds (sidestays), and still use the mast partner. My rig now carries more sail than the sloop rig, but I’ve had it out in 20 kt winds with the reef in the main. It wasn’t comfortable, but the boat handled it. I also modified the transom by adding a “fin” that changes the rudder pivot angle. With these modifications the boat changed from a good rowboat that can sail, to a good rowboat that also sails very well! The mods actually made sailing the boat a pleasure. But of course the rigging is more complex. The “good news” is that I was very careful to retain full lug-rig functionality when I modified the rig. I can set her up as a lug rig just as if she was never modified for the gaff-rigged sloop configuration.
Back to the point - you’ll find your dory will sail OK with its lug rig, but I think even a skilled sailor works hard to make it go upwind in a satisfying way if you are actually trying to get from point A to point B, and point B is upwind. So do get some help with instruction and get out on the water to develop some experience.
Wow- your mods are pretty impressive. Although I’m reluctant to try putting more sail up (I want to master the lug sail first, by itself), the ‘fin’ on the transom is genius! I noticed early on that the severe angle of the NE Dory transom tended to readily turn the rudder into a brake (or can lift it clear out of the water), so I’ve been trying to steer the boat with just small rudder angles. I may try the ‘Richards Transom Fin’ at some point soon. I’d be interested to see what your rudder ended up looking like.
Rudder mounting “fin” is just pressure treated fir from the lumberyard. I think 2"x6" , maybe it had to be 2x8 to be wide enough, I can’t remember. The picture shows the shape I came up with, it cuts down the vertical pivot angle by a bit more than half of the original angle. You can start the design of the fin by simply making a cardboard template - making and modifying several until things seem about right. I used two bronze wood screws through the transom to secure, along with epoxy. No need for clamps on installation, as the screws will draw it tight. I had to remove the rear seat to install the lower screw, but that’s easy. Don’t glue in place until all fit up is completed, including a full operational check of all clearances when (only) screwed into place. Prior to installation I fit up the gudgeons - used the same hardware, but bent each end over - they are inlet into the fin with a router, thus didn’t need to span the full 1.5 inch width of the fin. I also had to change the distance between pintals on the rudder due to the shorter length of the fin. Be carefull in positioning the fin (move it vertically up and down with the rudder attached to find the right spot) and check clearance between the rudder “stock” and the transom. I had to take a just slight bit off the corners of the sculling oar lock “horns” on the transom to allow full throw of the rudder without interference. As you can see from the picture, the top of the rudder head is now a bit higher than per original design, but that is “fixed” by my custom (longer/bigger/deeper) rudder blade. I gets a good bite on the water at all normal trim and heel angles. If you note in the picture, there is a big hole in to top of the rudder head. That is a mod I made during initial construction - I use a 1.25 inch oak dowell shoved through that hole as the tiller portion of the push-pull steering system. It gets lashed into place, and is easily removable so the rudder can store lying flat, no unweildy “L” shaped single-unit rudder to deal with as per standard/original design.
I live in an extreme NE patch of Columbus, five miles from the Maxtown Road ramp on Hoover Reservoir. Been sailing in a variety of boats for about 4 decades now, my only current boat being a lug rigged Passagemaker Dinghy. I might be able to help you if you want to try to get together maybe later in July. I’ve got some family coming into town here over the next couple of weeks, but after that I’ll probably be over there sailing anyway if the weather cooperates and I can otherwise get the planets to align. Be happy to help if I can.
Also, the folks at Hoover Sailing Club there off Smothers Road might have some certified sailing instructors who could help you out. Most folks think I’m “certifiable”, but that ain’t the same thing as being a certified sailing instructor. <;-)
Mike- I’m definitely gonna take you up on that kind offer. Been super busy lately but will probably be coming out of it later in July. Would welcome you for a ride in the boat and a diagnosis of the problems. Will also reach out to the folks at Hoover Sailing Club. Many thanks! My number is: 440-804-6065.
Gordon:
Happy to help! I look forward, hopefully, to meeting you soon. I hope, with time, you’ll like sailing upwind better than downwind. After all, any bozo in a bathtub with bedsheets on broomsticks can sail downwind, when you think about it. It’s going upwind which separates the spars from the broomsticks, the sails from the bedsheets, the sailboats from the bathtubs, and, yes, the sailors from the bozos. Not that having difficulty sailing upwind makes you a bozo, of course! You are a sailor who just hasn’t quite found his groove. I’m happy to help you look for it. I haven’t met anyone yet who couldn’t do it with a bit of coaching. <;-)
Michael R. Scheibeck
5952 Koenig Island Place
Westerville, Ohio 43081
614-586-5015
mscheibeck@sbcglobal.net
Yep- I’m definitely prime for some sail-coaching, and I’d welcome any critiques you might have about the boat itself. From what I’ve read, I think I’ve made errors when I’ve had people weighing down the stern and when I’ve had my lug-rig downhaul less-than-taut. Even with those errors, the boat can make some pretty good time on a beam reach, but trying to turn it just a bit upwind has been an exercise in frustration. And the rudder design is not good- you’ll know once you see it!
Will add my 2 cents and say that the balanced lug sail (have one on my Skerry) is a great sail for beginners. Like many things in life, when in trouble, let go. Let go of the mainsheet of that balanced lug sail if the gunwales are making a beeline for the water, and all should be well in about a half a second. - Will share my lack of preference for the push pull rudder. It’s not the push-pull I mind so much as the fact the rudder comes out of the water. Will never use a similar design again. Would opt every time now, in the future, for a flat transom, and standard tiller/rudder.
It’s not a flat transom that you need, it’s a plumb transom. With a plumb transom, no matter what the tiller arrangement, the rudder never leaves the water. Flat transoms have their pros and cons. The best things about them is that they’re easy to build and they are part of the method to make boats plane. The worst thing about them is that they’re sensitive to loading and balance. If the boat is not loaded correctly, a flat transom will drag and drastically slow the boat down. Double-ended boats and boats with rounded transoms have less drag than flat-transomed boats when they are loaded stern-heavy.
Laszlo
I’ve never sailed a double-ender… does the rudder leave the water due to chop, or being put hard over, or a combination of both? It seems pretty unlikely with the depth of the kickup rudder on my boat but I guess I’ll find out.
I’ve owned 3 double ender sailboats. On the Lighthouse Tender Peapod, Faering Cruiser and my Bolger His and Hers Schooner the rudder doesn’t leave the water even though they are all double enders. The Faering Cruiser even has one of those shallow rudders with the endplate. The reasons they don’t leave the water is:
- Peapod - mostly plumb stern and deep kick-up rudder
- Faering cruiser - mostly plumb stern and almost 23’ length which keeps the boat level in any reasonable chop.
- Schooner - raked stern but rudder mounted inboard in a cartridge
Laszlo
I’m intrigued by this rudder design. I have a sloop.rigged NE dory and really struggle to sail into the wind, let alone come about. When I look to the stern I can see the rudder acting more like a brake than steering tool.
When I’m sailing 90 degrees to the wind, I can see the boat going sideways to the wind almost as much as it’s going forward. I’m wondering if a longer daggerboard would make a difference, and if so, if anyone has a suggestion of how long to make it. Thanks for any feedback.
If you’re making that much leeway on an unmodified production boat, there’s something wrong with the sailing technique.
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Is the daggerboard all the way down? Don’t laugh, it happens. If I had a nickel for every time I did a beach launch and forgot to lower the board once the water was deep enough, I’d be buying a lot more boat kits (or beer).
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Is the sail properly trimmed? This can get you at least 2 ways. If the sail is stalled it doesn’t produce enough lift to move the boat forward fast enough to make the underwater foils effective. As a result, the dagger- or centerboard doesn’t produce enough lift to counteract the leeway and you go sideways. Or, if the sail isn’t correctly set, the lift vector is aimed in the wrong direction and results in excessive lee or weather helm. If the crew corrects with the rudder instead of the sail then they’re sailing with the rudder off the centerline and causing drag which gets us back to the ineffective underwater foils and excessive leeway. The solution for both cases is to make sure that the sail is properly trimmed. Telltales help a lot.
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Is the boat properly balanced? An imbalanced boat can cause reduced speed, making the underwater foils less effective causing excessive leeway and lee or weather helm or it can cause the boat to be down by the bow or stern causing the underwater foils to be unbalanced with each other or the sail(s), again causing excessive leeway or lee or weather helm. Make sure that the boat floats on its designed lines, or at least parallel to them, when it’s stationary with the crew in their assigned places. Use ballast if necessary.
Finally, if the rudder is acting as a brake, you need to be less aggressive with your turns. My Faering Cruiser was like that. If you tried to throw the rudder over the way you’d do in a racing dinghy, it would keep going forward while slowing down. Eventually it would loose all steerage way and you’d be stuck in irons. Any long, narrow boat with a shallow rudder is susceptible to this. The answer is to sail it through a turn instead of trying to power it through with the rudder. This involves using the sheet and tiller in a coordinated fashion and starting the process before you normally would with the rudder only.
Note that the common thread in all these cases is misuse of the rudder. That is, using the rudder to correct a problem that it isn’t causing and is not designed to fix. Fixing the root cause will let the rudder go back to doing what it was designed to do.
Hope this helps,
Laszlo
I’m glad to find a thread on this topic. I’ve been sailing only half a dozen times so far. I’ve got the CLC Skerry with balanced lugsail.
My first attempts sailing upwind were rather slow. I’ve been watching YouTube videos too, and monitoring my track with Apple Watch GPS. My last sail was pretty fun, quite an improvement over previous attempts.
But if I really need to get somewhere into the wind, my default is to deploy the oars and row! 
Part of my problem too is getting my brain trained to the push-pull rudder.
Winds were westerly on the example below. A few of the tacks were completely futile, but most were efficacious.
The sail itself seems to be a pretty good teacher. I would likely benefit from hiring a sailing instructor.
