Skerry questions (2/3 flotation bags)

Builder's Forum
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In another post, I asked a question about the painter. In this post, I would like to talk about flotation bags. On the drawings it says, "Positive buoyancy devices (such as flotation bags) should be fitted in all boats." I would be interested in what thoughts experienced small boat sailors and builders have on fitting and deployment of positive bouyancy devices in a boat such as the Skerry. It occurs to me one would want them to fit low in the boat. How might one secure such devices in a Skerry? I'm not sure how practical it would be to inflate them after a capsize, so perhaps they need to be inflated when installed? What say the experts?

Roger

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   I look for better experts than me to comment.

I have on purpouse capsized my skerry several times to practice recovery. however I have yet to flip it and I felt the closest yesterday on the water in the Ohio.

I am about 150 lbs, I usually carry about another 100 lbs that I put far forward to balance the boat (and have snacks and drinks!) For this arrangment I would not feel the need to have extra floation.

I had two of my kids with me yesterday and I borowed a trolling motor and battery. With how laden it was I felt the need to add a few bouy's and other flotation things just incase and especially to the heavy things I borrowed so that they would float.

I don't think it is needed for simple sailing, there seems to be more than enough bouyancy as is. but if you are going camping and have equiptment I feel it is needed.

While it is hard to keep the cockpit tidy with a bunch of stuff extra floation is never a bad thing if you get stuck in a bad situation.

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dmiddad, I appreciate you views on bouyancy and will keep them in mind. I've been influeced by capsize recovery videos for other water craft, not for a Skerry, which show how open cockpit boats can take on a lot of water during the righting and re-entry process. Perhaps you can relate how that worked for you when you practiced capsize. The main advantage I see for bouyancy devices is their ability to displace water when righting the boat, helping to avoid a swamping situation in which you are back in the boat but dead in the water.

To add to my original post, does anyone have a particular model of flotation bag they like that fits well and works well with a Skerry? There are a ton of choices for type and manufacture, and I'm having trouble picturing what would work best. I think I saw one in a Facebook group post, where a highly customized Skerry (maybe a Raid) had long tubes mounted longitudinally, but it seemed like apples to oranges with the Skerry I'm building.

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  Rodger, still waiting for your third question!

I will state again that despite my best efforts to have an unplanned capsize it has not happened yet. The boat is well designed and resists efforts. This is one of the great things of the design, and I was tossing between the skerry and the faering but went with the former because I wanted a lighter boat.

Because I think that one should practice dangerious situations in controlled conditions I have gone out of my way to flip the skerry in varrious conditions with others present in other boats to ensure that nothing happens. the hardest one was a february one with chilly watter and some good winds. I found that yanking out the mast from the step was the best way in these conditions because it gets you in the boat faster, you then have more work to do if you want to start sailing again.

The process is also hilarious because the boat does not want to go over, so you have a guy like me hanging off the yard trying to dip the wales of the skerry into the water and flip her over. I am not a big dude so this takes some time and effort.

I have not had specific floation devices on board, water proof bags and such but more for storage than for their floatative capacity.

after I swim around to the dagger board and right her water is about to the benches. I then start bailing about half of it out and then sort out the sail and the lines.

One thing that happened (not in a capsize practice) was at obx and the rudder popped out in the middle of my sail, I think I nudged the bottom. since then I tie the rudder off as stearing with an oar is a pain in the bum when trying to recover your rudder. I can imagine that in a capsize this could happen as well.

For the floatation bags, I think they would need to be tied down low in a manner they would not float up as you right the boat. the only place I think you could do this would be near the mast and in the forward compartment under the middle benches. But I use this space for camping gear, coolers, bags, and all the other crap I take with me.

Now, all this said, I plan on anouther practice session with my kids so they can learn and I want to lay out the boat to capacity (450lbs) I have wondered about this as with the lighter amount the water comes to about the benches, logically if heavier how difficult is it to recover and bail if the boat is so laiden that water and equiptment bring the interior water level to above the dagger board hole.... doing this one when the lake is super warm.

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   A friend who helps with the Skerry build suggested the tubes I saw in the Facebook group post might be beach roller tubes. That makes sense, because you could use them at your destination to haul your boat up the beach. I saw some online that are 7"x30" that might fit nicely in the forward cockpit. Maybe they could double as a bench seat in the aft cockpit? I'm wondering about the possibility of mounting some sort of tie-down to fit those rollers low in the boat. I'm also aware of possible interference with seating while sailing. It's tricky. 
dmiddad, that's a great description of the capsize and recovery. The difficulty capsizing is reassuring. I like your approach. Under the right circumstances the capsize drill might be the most fun part of learning to sail for kids. Have fun!

Roger

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Side seating is one of the discovered downsides to the skerry, especially if you are sailing her hard and have not put some boards on the bottom to prevent your bum from getting wet.

If those flotation seats work please send a picture of them and let me know how your experiance is with them.

(side note, I am working on removable benches amoung other enhancments this summer and winter)

For the tie downs I had an experiance (noted in your 3/3 post) where a screw from the rudder attachment came off and the tiny hole filled the aft compartment. Since then I have avoided any potential holes below the waterline. Its a hard balance and in a capsize it is nice to have everything stay with the boat and not go floating off. (hence the spacered inwales in my case) Good luck and let us know what works out!

The kids more and more want to go sailing, and even take the boat out on their own. I am not there yet because I do not feel like they are ready for emergencies. Even when I am with them I do not push the limits of the skerry as it would be really stressful trying to direct them and right the boat at the same time. Capsize recovery for a dinghy is a essential safety lesson.

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   Here is a picture of the flotation I spoke of. To keep it low, they wedge it under a custom thwart and tie it to a custom ledger(?)/rail(?). I don't know what you call that tie-down system. It looks like possibly a beach roller bag. I like the sound of the boards you mentioned for keeping the bum dry(er). In theory, those could provide openings for attachment? If you have and visuals of the boards, I would like to see them.

re: your rudder mishap

I've been wondering about putting a backing block behind the stem for the rudder hardware. That would have to happen before sealing the aft seat, which means I need to locate the rudder hardware out of sequence with the assembly process, I guess.

This discussion has been very fruitful for me. Many thanks.

Roger

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Image 43 in the skerry gallery is what I am looking at for the floorboards.Image 43 in the skerry galleryI do not imagine it being an extra place to tie down to as I would want to be able to remove them to clean underneith.    

Of note, in both of these that we have shared (and mine) they use the inspection ports!

I can now see how the floatation bags work with that very custom bench seat. I also appreciate the oar locks and that whole design. That said, it looks like it is set up for one person to sail from that middle bench. That can be a positive or negitive depending on what you are looking for and how often you plan to sail with others.

The cause of the rudder malifunction/mishap was multi fold.

  1. I did not have enough filler in that area
  2. The screw went through to the compartment and I could not have seen it as it was small
  3. It was a screw (I replaced it with a bolt after adding a crap ton of filler to that spot
  4. The area of the sound near OBX where I was at (Duk) is very shallow. Nice because there are no big vessels, but I was bumping the rudder and dagger all the time at low tide
  5. The rudder design I have does not lock into the boat, it is free floating
  6. I had the swing part of the rudder locked in the downward position for all of this and could have pulled it up

I have addressed most of these "issues" I think that the design is great but I have also seen that the skerry has been customized by nearly every owner both during the build and after to match their particular needs.

You can find a few discussions I have in this forum for modifying my skerry. I tend to have about 10 ideas for updating my boat each season and go with one or two of them, sail it for a year and then come back.

The big thing I want now is to have a folding mast set up so that I can set up and take down quicker. Right now prepping the boat on site takes about 30 min to get her into the water and I would love for that to be just driving her up to the water and done. (plus it would be nice to camp and a folding mast could make the whole boat into a tent.)