Conditioner/protectant for varnished and painted boats?

I’ve been paddling the Shearwater 17 I finished in December quite a bit, and mainly in saltwater. I’d like to find a finish protectant that would remove hard water spots, and keep the varnish and wood in good shape (I also use a quality cover). Bonus—for sea “patina” on the bronze screws I used for deck fittings, do folks just use something like a toothbrush and flitz metal polish to restore shine?
Thanks

I would recommend a simple fresh water wash before putting it away for the day…to the extent you can store in a garage dry and out of the sun thats a big help too. Address any scratches through the varnish and into the glass or beyond without delay

I have paddled my varnished boats for years with that simple recipe. And they hold up very well. …maybe refinishing once every 6 to 10 years. No protectants needed in my view. They also become problematic when you need to do a touchup or repair as those materials are not compatible with refinishing…

I certainly agree with the freshwater washdown/wipedown as a good step in maintaining your varnish finish. Also, keeping it out of UV, as you say you are doing with your cover. Good airflow is also important - not just for rot prevention, but to keep the boat as cool as possible. Heat, and temperature cycles, increase the rate of varnish aging. The thing you are trying to prevent (or delay) in all of these steps is the varnish’s loss of plasticity/elasticity, leading to micro-cracking the suface, leading to accelerated cracking as the micro-cracks set up areas on the surface for further, more rapid degradation. UV damage and oxygen cross-linking are the chemical processes that are destroying the varnish plasticity. In the final stages, when/if water reaches the wood, the underlying bond between varnish and wood will rapidly fail. We’ve all seen varnish in varying states of aging, from fresh/new through to completely mottled and flaking. Where my recommendation varies, is that I do strongly recommend waxing the boat as frequently as possible - at least 2 to 3 times a season/year, with a good wax with the highest carnuba content you can find. Finding a wax that is easily buffable means that a kayak can be washed and waxed in 20-30 minutes for the complete job (don’t do this in direct sunlight if possible, just as the wax can will advise, and I like terrycloth for buffing). Mother’s and Meguires mke some good waxes. I try to skip those dvertised as cleaner/waxers. Just wax will do after a soap and water washdonw with a good rise. I think wax helps limit the casues of damage - it provides UV protection, it limits the ability of environmental chemicals (salts, natural acids, petroleum scum, etc.) to stick to the surface, it forms an oxygen barrier, and it fills the micro-cracks in older varnish - thus prolonging the life of the varnish. Now- about the brass (or hopefully you mean bronze). If you make it bright again, it will tarnish again. I like to leave the patina in place. It is a lot of work to plish and keep polished (says the old Navy guy), and I’d rather spend the time spent on that out paddling, as unlike washing and waxing varnish, will add nothing (will actually reduce, however slightly) the life of the metal component.

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I’ll add a bit more. If you did get 5 or so coats of varnish on during the initial build, those outer two coats are protecting the underlying coats. When the varnish does start to look like in needs to be redone, finding the time to do it will save a lot of time later. If, after 5 years or so (usage and environmentally dependent timing here) you take the time to lightly sand the top several coats away (giving a good alcohol-greeny scrib to the boat before sanding to remove all wax, again, even before beginning sanding to limit the possiblility of any wax contamination) and then adding back about 3 coats of varnish can be accompished in just several hours of work. Taking the riggin off and putting it bak on is actually the longest step in the process, I think. Renewing varnish before getting into a “failed” varinsh situation is a gret time-saving. Having to strip and sand to bare wood is not good, and due to wood mottling, usually never restore the boat to that like-new condition. Renewing varnish topcoats before failure can make a varnished surface last “nearly forever.”

Finally, I just noticed the picture of your boat. Everything I said about the varnish applies to the paint, too, including the waxing recommendation. Paint just tends to last a bit longer, and is more forgiving in the application process.

Thanks for the detailed answers—helps my engineer brain get the how and why of wood and finish. I do rinse/sponge the boat with fresh water after every saltwater paddle, but hard water spots tend to be left behind. I am lucky enough to live in a relatively dry climate, though I don’t have access to a garage unfortunately, my kayaks live on an outside rack with covers. I gave the boat a wipe down with 303 protectant spray after this week’s paddle but will look into some marine wax.
I assume that I need to unrig for each wax/buff session?
Also yes I meant bronze—I got bronze machine screws and nuts for the deck hardware. I’ll cultivate the patina.

No need to unrig anything to wax. Just wax around things and under bungees, etc.. I don’t even worry much over the wax spots I might miss when quickly buffing - I just later give them a quick buff-away when I notice them. The wax will help somewhat with your ability to wipe away water spots. I’m guessing that with the passage of time and after getting your first few dings and scratches on your boat any obsession with boat appearance will fade in favor of just maximizing time on the water. That said, there is some crossover between keeping up appearance and doing things necessary to maintain longevity, so however much effort you put into appearance is your choice, but it is never really time wasted.

On my WD12 I used the following method to hold the rigging in place:

A piece of webbing is sewn into a figure 8 - one loop on top of the other. One loop is pushed through a slit in the deck and has a sharpened dowel pushed through it to secure the loop inside the boat.


Outside, the rigging is slipped through the outer loop. The tension pulls the inner loop against the slit and prevents (mostly) water from getting in (more gets in off the drip rings).


The system is strong enough that the boat can be picked up by the rigging, but the best part is that by slipping the dowels out of the inner loops, the entire rigging can be removed as one piece in under a minute. Replacing it takes a little longer, maybe 5 minutes once you’ve had some practice.

Laszlo

Gotcha thanks again. Now the 5 layers of varnish on the deck seem worthwhile!

Lazlo, do you find that the rigging slots/webbing wick water into the interior of your boat? I find myself paddling the Shearwater in more and more spicy conditions since it’s so confidence inspiring, but this makes me want to minimize points of water intrusion.
This week was 24-knot winds, big chop in beam seas, and clapotis along the breakwater. Even managed a small surf landing (but had a lot of sand and seaweed to clean off afterwards). Glad I did the extra work to add a skeg.
I’ll keep working to find the sweet spot between being fussy over finish and taking adequate care of the boat.

As I said, it’s not bone dry but more comes in off the drip rings. A sponge in the cockpit takes care of things for me. More cat-like people wouldn’t like it, but here’s a reason kayaking is called a water sport :slight_smile:

It’s nowhere near enough to worry about foundering, so it’s not a safety issue. Basically it only lets water in when the slit is submerged for an extended period of time.

Laszlo

I use a system of relatively easy to remove rigging, almost identical to laszlo, which i learned from Joe Greelley at redfish kayaks, (which takes just a little more time to remove). But basically it installs one way from under the deck and i put a dab of clear silicone calk…no drips…100% waterproof.

this is basically a single fold of strapping and then a hot iron on the open ends to melt it together and make a little mushroom top that prevents it from exiting the boat. the dab of silicone goes on the inside of the mushroom top that butts up against the inside of the deck when you insert the top of the loop up through the deck.

as laszlo points out, at some point removing everything or parts is the way to go. so making it engineering for a certain amount of disassemble is desireable. this approach (and laszlos) has the additional desireable feature of minimizing rigging that will snag a lifejacket or other gear or your skin when doing things like a wet reentry).




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Howard,

Doesn’t your system require the unlacing of the lines from the holders?

I really like both methods to attach the loops. I’ve never cut the slots in the deck before other than cutting out my hatches. What is a good way for doing it?

Doug Finlayson

yes laszlo, good point…it does require the removal of the lines.

my line approach has always been relatively easy to untie (its a simple knot) so i did not think about that when i replied originally . your approach for routine waxing would probably be easier if you wanted to move things vs wax around them.

that said, depending on the boat and the rigging plan, we both would be challenged under certain rigging schemes where the rigging point may not be reachable with the hand. in the technique i showed, however, there is an easy solution…

i am not sure how your approach would work when you have a rigging point in the ends that you cant reach by hand (to insert or remove the dowel).

in this picture for example, you can see the rigging point for the bow being set. the black line is a whiping line (heavy wax twine) that was dropped into the forward rigging hole and then grabbed and pulled through to the nearest hatch. with a needle i then looped into my rigging loop:

in this pictue, i then pulled the line that i had fished back through the rigging hole which is now taking the rigging loop with it and it pops out and is set (friction and a dab of silicone holds it in place.


when i fefinish the boat or othewise need to remove the lines, i remove the lines and push the loop fitting back into the hull and retrieve it.

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on the question of how you cut the slots…

the first part of the my reply is, “carefully”, becuase they are really tough to move after the fact. :thinking:

in terms of how you actually do it, in this picture i show how i laid it out on a boat i built a while ago:

the actual slits are made by drilling two holes in the ‘sides’ of the box hole that you are going to make that is slightly wider then the the thickness of two pieces of the nylon strapping …i think it is about 1/8 inch. a little bonsai saw with a narrow tip is usally small enough to cut between the outer edges of the two holes and then finish it up with with a medium size flat wood file (that is narrow enough to fit within the hole).

do some test fitting and adjust with the wood file as appropriate.

it is critical to remember, as the last step, to paint the edges of the the hole with epoxy to ensure you have no exposed wood.

for rigging that is not a loop, you can fold over the ends of the nylon strap and hit it with an iron.

that is how i made the straps for the hatch hold downs and the end that is in the hull…the other end is where the buckles are attached.

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Thanks for the detailed explanation. I did something like that when I was installing my inserts for my rudder cable thru hull. My greatest concern was water proofing the cut. This is such a narrow cut I wasn’t sure if it would work doing it that way.


Howard et al,

Point taken about reaching the far ends of the boat. I did this on a WD12, so no need for an orangutan in my pocket.

I also used a bonsai saw to make the initial cuts. Then, following Kurt Maurer’s example I wrapped some adhesive-backed sandpaper around a butter knife and used that to give the slits their final shape.

I went paddling the day before yesterday and due to this discussion I measured the water in the boat after an hour+ of paddling around Almshouse Creek and South River - 2 tablespoons. I think I sweated more than that.

Laszlo

Really appreciating seeing the details of these rigging innovations—thank you!
When it’s time to refinish I’ll look into changing the rigging over. The loops look nice and low-profile for scrambling around the boat during rescues, too.