I've seen plenty of photos of the NE Dory under sail with multiple crew aboard. I'm trying to find some video of a crew of 2 tacking a sloop rigged version. It looks like tight quarters but I am sure people are doing it. It looks like it might be tough for the forward crew to duck under the boom. I guess when doublehanding, the helmsan sits on the stern seat to create more room forward?
Either way, I am ordering mine... finally! I spent the summer trying to get on other peoples' boats and am getting ready to start building.
Hijack away. I am very interested in the Gaff rig myself, at least out of curiousity and as a learning opportunity.
I missed the fact that the sloop version of the NED was stayed. That, of course, eliminates any structural concerns of adding stays to an unstayed boat.
My schooner's sails were made by SailRite and they did an excellent job. I'd rate their product, and especially their customer service, right up there with CLC.
So now I'll just sit on my hands and wait for the gaff rig pictures to show up. Hope it all works out.
Laszlo
Not my boat, but very similar, including hull color.
My shrouds and forestay rigged as per the sloop, so I'm not worried about structural issues. I used Amsteel Dyneema for the shrouds. I'm thinking John/CLC might want to make the change over in all applicable situations now, too. Better, cheeper and more all-arouund convenient in these small boats.
BTW, I just mis-clicked on a key and lost about 5 paragraphs of description just before hitting "post", so now you'll just have to wait until my frustration level goes away for more details. I'll post pictures and details then, after I sail. Tough finding a sailmaker to do my job right now.
With no permanent forestay I'll not be doing roller furling.
If you plan to do much sailing in your NE Dory, even singlehand, I recommend you give serious consideration to some "side seats." You can search the forum for several design options - freely removable, easily removable, built in. Some have been designed to pair with sleeping arrangements.
Mine are designed to fit between the two seats at the widest part of the boat, nicely finished boards, outsides curved to match hull, varying between about 8 and 11 inches wide, length set to fit between the rib in the center of the forward and aft seat. They simply screw down at each end. No solid facing under the inboard side of the seat, but I did put shaped closed-cell foam (not glassed styrofoam (but that would work)) flotation under each, bonded to the under surface of the seat. Thus, the seats are removable very quickly by removing a few screws. I never remove mine, as all they do is occupy what is otherwise basically wasted space. If I splay my legs or knees out while rowing they do touch the side seats, but that is no interference with a comfortable rowing position.
I find the side seats add greatly to sailing comfort/sail-ability of the boat. You can achieve much more comfortable body positions, allowing to you steer, watch sails, move to counterbalance heel caused by wind, etc. I've never had the desire to risk truly hiking out from the guwale on the dory - it is so light and quick-reacting that I think that would be a formula for capsize or falling out, even with some sort of hiking strap. (Not to mention the very thin/uncomfortable seating surface presented by the gunwale.) Or maybe because I weigh 225 lbs, so there is that.. I just recently added some stick-on non-skid pads to my side seats to limit my butt sliding around. Seating options with side seats will be greatly improved with 2 or more people aboard, also.
Search the forum and you'll find plenty of discussion and options for side seats. Enjoy your build, and the use of your boat.
BTW, I love my dory (now 7 years old and used consistently), but never liked how it sailed in light air. Anything less than 3 or 4 knots and I decide it is time to row. Hard to make a 45 degree tacking angle for me with the lug rig in light air. (I love the lug rig going downwind, though...). So! I just converted my balanced lug rig so that it can also be used as a gaff rigged main sail (all the same mast and spars) with a jib. Added some shrouds, a goose neck, two additional halywards, etc.. It will be a load-bearing jib luff - no forestay when the jib is down, but the lug rig mast partner makes that unecessary, as the mast will stay up when the jib comes down. It was a pretty involved conversion, especially as I preserved the ability to shift back and forth between the rigs very easily (even on water in just a minute or two) and with no permanent/conflicting modifications to anything. Lots of clearance/interference things to consider when setting up the rig geometry, boom height, sheet angles, hardware options, etc.. I'm only waiting to get my jib finished by a guy at our club that makes sails. I'm cutting the top 1/3 off of an old Flying Scot jib, calculating the area at about 16 sq. ft. and the fit-up looks perfect. My wife wouldn't let me attempt the sewing on her regular sewing machine. As a part of the project I made some significant modifications to the rudder, too, including a new blade and changing the hinging pivot angle on the transom. I think there are some NE Dories out there rigged with mizzen sails, but this gaff rig might be carrying more total sail area than any other NE dory of which I'm aware. I worry that if my rough calculations on center of effort/center of resistance, etc. don't work out and the thing turns out to be un-sailable that John Harris will have a laugh. I'll report later on how things work out. - Bubblehead
I did manage to find some brief video of 2 person crew sailing a NED sloop. I didn't see them tack exactly, but it certainly looked like they could do it reasonably well from the middle two seats if the forward crew is flexible enough to get low. I even saw a NED crew that included a "Bowman" of sorts. Seems like it will get the job done anyway with come carefully planned movements.
First, apologies for hijacking the thread, but bubblehead's gaff conversion is too intriguing to ignore.
bubblehead,
The first thing that comes to mind for me are the structural issues caused by the shrouds. I'm interpreting your mention of shrouds as as mast stays. Is that correct? One of the issues with adding stays to boats designed for unstayed rigs is the attachment points. If the hull is relatively thin you may need to reinforce it with a doubler. Another issue, especially with a low mast partner and a relatively high flared hull is flexing. The mast acts like a lever arm pulling the stay towards it and causing the hull at the shroud attachment point to flex inward.
I don't know if either of these would be a problem for you. It could be that the boat has enough design margins so that they're not an issue. It could also be that where and how you are attaching the shrouds avoids those problems. Or you may have to add some doublers to the hull and/or forward frame or possibly even a new upper mast partner at gunnel level. If you haven't already gotten CLC's blessing it might be worth checking with them to see if there are in fact structural issues in moving from an unstayed design to one with stays.
In the meantime, do post pictures. I'd really love to see what this looks like. BTW, when I built my gaff-rigged schooner, I used a roller furler for the jib. That was incredibly convenient and worth every penny. Being able to get rid of the sail in a matter of seconds with one hand from the cockpit was a vey nice feature in strong winds.
Hope it all works out for you and, again, pictures - lots of pictures.
Laszlo
PS, this your boat?
Thanks for the great info Bubblehead! I do like the idea of side seats, especially if reserve bouyancy can be added. I was considering adding floor boards for sitting on the floor and not being in a puddle of water, but side seats are probably a better option. I'll search the forum for discussion, and hopefully some photos exist.
I also like idea of your Gaff rig conversion. I don't fully understand it, but being able to use a jib without having to convert to the Sloop rig sounds nice. I like the lug for the ability to quickly switch to rowing when the need arises, but i would also like the added performance of the sloop. Everything is a compromise I guess and I've got a long way to go before I'm forced to make those decisions.
I forgot to mention from your previous post - I made a tilt-up backrest for my stern seat. Pretty classy, but my wife is the only one that ever uses the stern "princess seat" - sometims even with her umbrella in hand. You can't deal with much weight back there unless the other occupant(s) are at the center seat or forward. When we row with my wife in back and me in the middle I always have to put all our lunches, jacket, anchor, dogs, etc. as far forward as possible, and that is just barely enough to trim the boat out.
Even with 3 or 4 aboard, the person using the stern seat is probably best a passenger. With the length of the steering stick, better that the helmsman is at least one seat further forward to prevent a stern-seat helmsman from "abusing" those farther forward in the boat with the end of the tiller stick. Or, you could create a shorter tiller extension for use with more people aboard, but even so, that might mean you'd want to take both sticks with you every time you get underway so as to no limit your options.