After removing the deck and hull from the forms and viewing the insides of the hull, I noticed that when I reattached the broken pieces of the stern part of the hull, the strips on one side did not connect to the inner stem. The craft still appears symmetrical, but there is a gaping hole behind and beside the inner stem.
Should I fillet behind here when preparing to glass the inner hull, should I simply remove the inner stem, or should I try to reattach it to both sides?
Thank you!
The main thing is how it looks from the outside…and that it is symetrical and shaped as expected.
the inner stem, as your picture shows, can look pretty sloppy from this perspective. that said, i would focus on removing any remnants of blue tape and then fillet over it with a mayonaise thickness epoxy with wood filler.
a picture shot from outside the boat so that we can look at that together would help me confirm the strategy i am proposing.
is the inner stem necessary? not really. it is just more complicated to build and ensure everything comes out right if you don’t use one as part of your process. i have on occassion, done it when i was trying to save every ounce…but as mentioned, it created some other build challenges that were all addressable, but required some extra work. an example of that is when you want to put toggle holes through the ends to tie a rope to the kayak. typically this hole would go through the inner stem and not open into the hull…so if you don’t have an inner stem and you want to put toggles, you might need to insert a block of material in the anticipated area of the hole to prevent the hole from opening into the hull.
hope that helps
h
Upon further inspection, I think I should use heat to soften the wood and the existing glue and attach both sides to the internal stem. This is more crooked than I want to ignore.
Yep. Based on picture you definitely want to do that before lockin in with epoxy 
I tacked it down today.
Now I’m mentally preparing for the skim coat and first time glassing. I may do another coat of stain first and even out some of the more obvious areas.
From this distance, I cannot tell where I filled in with the stained dust.
kw
Are you done sanding the exterior of the hull? Maybe my eyes are off or the picture is bad but the exterior hull looks like it has not been sanded carefully to the point where the hull is smooth. I personally would not try and glass the exterior with the hull in its current condition.
You are correct. I came to a point while I was sanding (even with 36 grit) where I was not appreciating any change in the condition of the hull for the effort I was exerting. I resolved to press forward anyway, hoping to take the lessons from this build into the next. I just put a seal coat over the exterior hull. If I like the results, I may go ahead and glass this portion. I do plan on being more thorough on the deck.
At this point, I still don’t know what I don’t know, and I welcome all advice on this journey.
I don’t have a propane torch, so here is my attempt to heat the surface to bring any bubbles to the top to pop.
Thanks to everyone for viewing and commenting!
How long do you all generally wait after a skim coat before glassing?
Before glassing I think you should wait for Lazlo or Howard to weigh in. They are the experts on this forum. I personally would hold off glassing. The hull needs to smooth with NO ridges between adjacent strips of wood. Otherwise, the fiberglass will not make full contact with the hull, leaving numerous air pockets which is a definite no no.
What kind of sander have you been using? Cedar is pretty soft so I normally sand with just 80 grit, sometimes 60. A good orbital sander should make pretty short work of smoothing the hull
Have you watch Nick Schade’s YouTube videos? They are a must watch
I’ve been leaving this topic to folks who’ve actually built strippers, but I will weigh in and second David’s recommendation that the hull needs to be smooth (and fair) before glassing.
If this was my boat I’d use a fairing board to get it all smooth and fair. I’d start with no coarser than #80, maybe even #120 depending on how smooth the hull actually is, and take it to #220. As David says, cedar is pretty soft (I’ve used it in non-stripper applications) so a fairing board instead of a power sander is a viable option. Several hours will get that hull smooth and fair.
My biggest concern is saving the stain job. The sanding may leave it blotchy and it will need to be repaired. I’m going to leave how to do that to the folks who’ve actually done it (Howard, Mark, et al).
But definitely get that surface smooth before you glass it.
Laszlo
Hi KW,
have been offline for a bit. i try to take a couple days offline every week and lose myself in a good old fashioned book. with the rain over this memorial day weekend here in the Mid-atlantic area…getting a lot of book time.
i am in general agreement with Lazlo that i would sand this down to a smoother surface before glassing. i would not worry about the stain and skim coat applied so far. it will come off easily and it does not penetrate that deep and is easy to color match as you used the stain pretty much strait up and dark. you can think of the existing application as the pencil marks you make to guide you where the sanding needs to occur…and if you built with 1/4 in strips you have plenty of material.
fwiw…i have done what you have done before and sanded it all back and restained. i just pace myself by breaking the boat up into three to four foot sections with a single piece of 60 grit on a ROS sander…and only do as many segments as i want to do…but ensure i have the whole thing nice. i use a new sanding disc every three to four feet.
we are not looking for perfection…i just think in looking at it…you have done such a wonderful job to date…you will appreciate having it smoother…becuase it will make the glass work and sanding the glass much easier if the underlying strip are sanded fare/flat. the skim coat and the reflection from the light is highlighting a lumpiness between strips that may not have been obvious before hand.
below is a picture of a boat at a similar stage for comparison…again this is not ‘perfection’ but basically faired/sanded enough that the strips blend into one another…the pictures showed the progression…and there is not an obvious bump or valley between them…and between these photos was some resanding and restainig to get it to the final picture which then was followed by glass. lighting and using your fingers are really important in this phase. and again…not perfection…but agressive enough that when you sand or run your fingers over it across the strips no bumps/valleys between them.
like i said, my work habit approach to maintain my sanity during sanding is to break the boat into small sections, this work is best with really sharp sandpaper and attention…so breaking it into three to four foot sections and swapping the paper out is my suggestion…and the color you applied will give you a really good visual guide to your progress.
on your other question about heat/using a torch. the purpose of the skim coat is two part. the irst part is to fix the stain in place. the second part is to close the outward facing pores of the wood so that when the glass layer is applied,the underlying wood is sealed and you now can be less concerned about bubbles developing. so a heating like your doing is nice but not really necessary. that said, i would always do my skim coat into level or slightly decreasing temperatures. glass can go on as soon as the skim coat is set…i usually wait a day or two. and nothwithstanding that it fills the pores, i always, as a matter of discipline, do glass work into level or slightly decreasing temperatures if i am in any phase that i am glassing or applying epoxy to wood that has not been glassed yet.
hope that helps
h
This is all very helpful and encouraging. I have not been the most patient apprentice; I took time away from the internet this week and applied the first layer of glass despite the uneven surface. Having lost faith in my capacity to fix that part, I proceeded to lay the glass on the hull and see what would happen.
I have managed to watch the videos of the Petrel (and several others) with unwavering interest. After watching an action movie, I walk away thinking I can do all the stunts on the first try. I compare my experience building this boat in that light. Once my hands start to learn what my eyes were learning, some things start making more sense.
Here is a glimpse of the bow. I used a razor to scrape a few strands from the chip brush off the surface. Below is a look at the stern. Visible are the portions where the glass vaulted over the unfair edges. I am considering either injecting some tinted, thickened epoxy into these spaces or just leaving them as visible reminders. I do plan on a second layer of glass over the exterior hull.
Below is a random shot of the weave pattern. I have not yet poured on a fill coat. I have that on the itinerary for this week.
I am unable to upload video of a walkthrough of the hull, so here are other areas I wish to highlight.
Please forgive my impatience. I share this for the accountability as well as for the potential to help future builders.
Have a great day!
kw
Hi KW,
that’s the spirit!
i think you are doing fine. these are boats and nobody is going to die - we aren’t doing surgury. we are trying to have fun.
continue to wet out the epoxy… with fill coats and move onto sanding and you can make little adjustments and fixes along the way.
with respect to your pictures, the only thing i see that you will need to be attentive to is, is the white in some of these picutres just the reflection of the light…or is it that the cloth did not get wet out? picture 3273 is the one that has most of my attention. if its just the light, as you add fillcoats, the white in the picture will disappear and look like image 3278. if the glass is not wet out properly, it will stay white after the fill coats…and you may have to remove a bit of it and put a patch over it.
to the extent that the underlying wood was not fare, some of that will continue to occur on the overlying glass. but for now, lets just proceed on and see how it works out and we can talk about addressing any signifcant issues there when and if you come to that point.
on the areas where you say the glass ‘vaulted’ over the unfair edges, just inject clear epoxy into them. no need to color it. you just don’t want bubbles below the epoxy like that. you have more of these vaults then you would have had had you spent more time sanding, but you identified the fix (inject epoxy into them) and that is just fine and even on my builds with a lot of experience, i make a little fixes like this all the time.
h
And keep in mind that fairing compound, a fairing board and paint will cover a multitude of sins. If you don’t like the appearance when it’s done, going the painted route will hide everything and make it look like a high-end composite boat.
Laszlo
Great advice and encouragement as always! I have slowed down a bit as far as moving to new steps, and I’m taking more time on my steps.
I applied one fill coat to the exterior hull but have refrained from sanding it down for a moment. I managed to inject some epoxy into the spaces where the fiberglass did not lay flush to the strips.
Much of my time has been spent fairing and sanding the deck. I discovered that while these bungees do great keeping the deck and hull closely related, I had the green one too tight (it sunk a few grooves into the soft cedar). I imagine that would pop out again if I wet the grain.
Something had been bothering me deep in my subconscious: when I first started stripping the deck, I double checked the measurements, and the forms forward to the cockpit were two inches higher than my line. I used a belt sander to reduce the forms to proper height, stripped the deck, and moved on with life. Only recently did it hit me. Did I raise those forms so I would have foot room?! Had I seen that a decade ago and forgotten about it?
I carefully laid the hull on the concrete floor atop some blue closed cell mats. After removing the strongback, I sandwiched myself between the hull and deck. Will my feet survive?
Good news! I will keep this in mind should I need more space for a drysuit, but I think this will be manageable!
I lost my stain for the deck, so I decided to start scraping and sanding the interior hull until it showed up. Let me say that I profoundly respect those who can knock epoxy drips off on the first round. I didn’t even make the wood glue disappear yet!
I won’t give up though!
Turns out I never purchased the stain for the deck! Remedied that this weekend. There are a few low spots I want to address until then.
I also learned that the bottom of a coffee mug can sharpen a dull scraper and pocket knife. I’m going to spend more time keeping my tools sharp so I don’t waste time tickling the wood with dull instruments.
Have a great day!
kw
