Tenderly Rigging (Lug Sail) Questions

Builder's Forum
1

After just receiving a ton of great advice about getting my just-completed Tenderly away from the dock as smoothly as possible, I'm now looking more closely at the rigging as I do some practice sail-hoisting in my backyard.

The manual shows the halyard tied more or less permanently to the yard at a specific point.  I'm wondering whether a method that allows for connecting/disconnecting the halyard from the yard might be easier - - allowing, for example, the halyard to remain on the mast rather than having to thread it through the masthead hole while attached to the yard and sails each time.  (I can think of several ways myself, but I'd prefer to use a method others may have found successful and looks good, assuming it's a good idea in the first place.)

Also - - without opening a huge debate about the "best" way to rig a lug sail - - I'd like to get a sense from others about whether other options for rigging the sail (e.g., hardware at the masthead for hoisting sail; methods for snugging the yard and boom to the mast when the sail is raised and fastened to downhaul) are all that "necessary" under ordinary circumstances.  They appear to add to rigging time, and the designer and testers of the Tenderly and similar boats must feel the rigging as described in the manual is quite adequate.  I'm still a bit curious, however, what others have found about the basic question about the need for additional tuning methods.

2

I'm in the process of ironing out the final details of the rigging on my gunter-sloop PMD.  I have a similar challenge with the yard.  The manual says to drill a small hole the long way through the yard and to slide a Dyneema hayard through it and terminate with a stop knot.  I also would like to be able to easily detach my halyard.

I'm looking at some options like lashing through a hole drilled in the yard, a soft shackle, or a brummel lock, etc.  Regardless, the halyard will end with a small snap shackle.  The halyard will most probably end up being a stripped/tapered length of MLX.

I've got some other tricks up my sleeve for the mainsheet bridle, etc.  BTW, I'm also a rigger at West Marine and have done boats for the America's Cup, R2AK and NOAA.

I will be happy to post pics and possibly video if anyone is interested.  I'll let you know when I finalize the rigging, which will hopefully be in the next couple of days.

P.S.  I went with the wooden mast option that John was distributing, so I have the goosenecks and sail track instead of the sliding jaws.

3

I posted this link on the other thread, but it is worth repeating.  This is a series of articles regarding how to rig a free standing lug sail written by Micheal Storer.  He is the designed of the Goat Island Skiff and aguably the leading expert on lug rigs.  This is mostly for his boats but applies to all lug rigs.

https://www.storerboatplans.com/category/tuning/lug-rig-setup/

On the Goat, the halyard is left on the mast.  It runs through a block lashed at the correct position on the yard then forward through a hole in the yard then knotted.  The part of the halyard that runs forward to the hole is run on the otherside of the mast.  This gives it the dual purpose of raising the sail and holding the yard tightly against the mast.

It is imperative that the yard and boom are held tightly against the mast and there is significant luff tension.  Otherwise, the boat won't sail to windward well.

Here is a picture of my halyard set up.  Since this picture was taken, I have shortened the block lashing so that it is much closer to the yard.  Note that I have the position for the block lashing marked with a piece of yellow tape so that I get the block in the correct place.  When stowing the sail, I unknot the halyard at the hole in the yard, pull it out of the block and tie it to the base of the mast. 

     

4

I wasn't sure of the importance of keeping the boom close tight to the mast, but you've put that question to rest, as well as the significance of keeping the boom down tight with the downhaul.  Storer uses a "bleater" to keep the boom close tight to the mast, as well to keep the boom from moving forward.  Am going to give that a short.  Thanks!

5

   Edit:  Shot (not short).

6

   Okay, I had found those Storer plans before I posted my questions - the second of which is whether lug sail sailers (in particular) have found it almost “necessary” to depart from the plans in the manual and add a method to keep the yard tight against the mast when raised (and same for the boom with downhaul).  If I were to go with Storer’s plan, it looks like I’d have drill another hole in the yard through which I would pass the halyard with end knot every time I rig the boat (unless I’m misunderstanding what’s involved).  Again, have most CLC builders found this setup essential?  And if not especially, and we come back to the simplicity of rigging, what’s a good way to attach the halyard to the yard for ease in detaching and leaving the halyard on the mast?

 

7

   On third thought, is there another good way to attach the halyard to the end of the yard, assuming I want to use Storer’s method of then running the halyard through a block on the yard, then up through the dumb sheave and down to a cleat?

8

   Shoe, with reference to attaching the halyard to the yard, and then running the halyard through a block and then up through a dumb sheave, I can only speak with reference to the balanced lug sail rig supplied for the Skerry.

For the Skerry, a hole is drilled in the yard, 42 1/2 " from the fore end of the yard, that is, from the end where it meets the luff of the sail, from the bottom side of the spar, up through it to the othe side.  The halyard is passed through the hole, from where the topside of the spar would be when fully raised, and a knot is tied on the other side.

A 1" Hole is drilled through the top of the mast, about one inch from the top.   The halyard is to pass through this hole and down the mast to a cleat.  This 1" hole at the top of the mast should be sanded through and rounded out on each side, since the halyard will be running through it and one wants to reduce chafe as much as possible.  That hole should be thoroughly sanded and smoothed out and then sealed with epoxy or varnish.

The alternative to having a simple 1" hole to run the halyard through, is a block, of course.  But I believe it was someone on this forum who recommended against that, the reason being that a lot of force is going to exerted on that halyard during the raising of the sail, the brunt of which force will put pressure on at the point where it goes through either a hole at the top of the mast, or a block.  If it's through a block, the center of pressure will be offset from the center of the mast by an inch or two, putting undue pressure on the mast, if I understood the explanation right.  Whereas, if you run the halyard through the mast at a hole at its top, the center of pressure falls squarely on the mast itself, minimizing side pressure on the mast.  It works for me; I've got a well rounded out hole at the top of my Skerry mast, and have no problems raising the yard.

I then run the halyard through a hole in the deck, then through a block just above the mast step, and out to a cleat by the center seat.

The halyard pulls the yard right up close to that 1" hole at the top of the mast, and so for the Skerry, I haven't found it necessary for any additional means to hold the yard close to the mast.  The halyard is doing that already, by pulling it up close to that 1" hole at the top of the mast.  I still plan on trying Storer's "bleater" idea for purposes of holding the boom close to the mast.  

 

9

   Daniel, thanks for confirming my thought that Storer's plan for holding the spar against the mast might be a bit of overkill.  Not that it's a big deal, but - to do it - I'd need to drill another hole in the forward end of the yard for the end of the halyard (after it goes through a block and up to the masthead hole).  If it's not all that critical for most casual sailing purposes, why do it.  (But I'm still open to being convinced by anyone else with a different idea about this.)

I think I'm back to asking for a simple way to attach the halyard to the yard at the recommended spot - - a way that allows quick connection and disconnection.  A hole would certainly work, but I'm a little nervous about the relative inflexibility of that solution, given what some have said about the possible need of making slight adjustments to that point of lift.  

10

While the halyard holds the yard near the mast when fully up, when reefed it will pull away.  I have a short line with parrel beads that loops the mast and keeps the yard raesonably close to the mast without dragging when hoisting or lowering the sail.  It also keeps things less chaotic when dropping the sail into the lazyjacks. 

 

11

I was leery of drilling holes in our PMD lug yard and boom...so I didn't.  Halyard and downhaul are attached to the spars using lashings of 1/8" braided stuff with loops in the middle, a "soft" loop for the halyard, which is bent to the loop with a slipped sheet bend or somethng similar.  The loop on the boom for the downhaul is "hard", i.e., I siezed in a smooth SS thimble in so that I could pass the downhaul up from the cleat (on the mast), though the thimble, and back to the cleat for a two-part purchase.  I think I put links to photos of all this in the earlier thread on this.

What would be even simpler might be to attach halyard and downhaul with simple clove hitches around the spars.  The halyard might want a rolling hitch instead, with the two turns taken toward the peak and the final turn taken toward the throat (this to reduce tendancy for the knot to slip up towards the peak when hoisted).  I seem to remember Phil Bolger mentioning this somewhere in his many writings.  In fact, this is how we rigged our PMD for the initial adjustments to figure out where we wanted to place the lashings.

The advantages of the loops lashed on are (1) the aforementioned two-part downhaul purchase and (2) the lashings stay put so we don't have to scratch our heads trying to figure out where to bend on the lines back on the next time or fiddle around making knots between the sails and the spars.  The advantages of the lashings (or direct hitching right on the spars) vs. holes in the spars are (1) easy adjustability and (2) no potential weakening of spar.

The upper block for our midship sheet arrangement has a snap hook siezed to the becket which hooks into another of those soft loop-lashings on the middle part of the boom.  I think the manual showed this upper becket lashed directly to the boom, but we thought this a better arrangement so that we didn't have to reeve the sheet through the block every time and so that block wasn't wrapped up with the sail when furled.

I'm still debating with myself about a parrel for the yard.  So far, it hasn't seemed necessary for me, even with the first reef tucked in.  The two-part downhaul seems to keep enough tension on the whole business that the yard doesn't kite away from the mast much, maybe no more than it would if the parrel weren't so snug that the yard wouldn't run up and down freely at all angles.  I might change my mind if I use the second reef much--haven't had her out in that much wind yet.  

I think we ended up with a 3/4" hole in the mast for the halyard rather than the 1" specified.  1" just seemed awfully big in relation to the stick.  We figured we could always drill it out if 3/4" proved too small.  We haven't had a single jam yet, the 1/4" braided halyard seems to zip smoothly through the well-rounded hole without trouble.

Different ships, different long splices....  <;-)

.....Michael

12

   Thanks again, Michael, for sharing your experience re this related post as well.  Just as with all the how-to-avoid trouble guidance, I've begun to second-guess myself (and the Tenderly manual) about the rigging setup.  Your comments about the "probable" lack of need for a parrel in calm-to-moderate circumstances pretty much jives with my own conclusions - - though I can understand how others conclude otherwise.

I've been practicing the "halyard bend" - the knot that seems to me the most secure for fastening the halyard to the yard - and It doesn't seem all that difficult to tie on at a marked place on the yard each time.  Though I'm still not sure whether to do the rolling part of that knot toward the peak or throat.  Your recommendation?

I like your lashing with loop system though, too, but I've run out of 1/8 or 3/16 rope in which to do it.  It's good to know about this option, however, when I decide I can afford to buy more of that kind of stuff.

I also like your downhaul arrangement, though I think I might use a block instead of a thimble, largely because I have one and don't have a thimble.  I think it will accomplish pretty much the same thing, unless I'm missing something.

13

   Well I went ahead and installed a Storer style "bleater", or parrel, for holding the boom close to the mast, and installed a small cleat on the mast for purposes of getting the thing tight.  But I agree - the downhaul, for my only 2 times out yet with this boat (a Skerry) seemed to do the job of keeping the boom close to the mast anyway.  I'm hoping the bleater will keep it even closer.  

  So I rigged the boat in the driveway, then lowered everything, keeping all lines  - halyard, downhaul, mainsheet, and parrel n place, just to see how that would work, and there seems to be no problem, such that the sail can lie bunched up on the port side, and allow me to sit on the center seat and row out to open water before raising the sail again.

  I'd almost capsized four times last time out, which was only in 5 to 10 winds.  So until I know this boat better, am going to from now on take along the two 10 lb dumbbells, which I made little slide-in compartments for, directly under the center seat. I'm not sure 20 lbs of ballast will make much difference (i'm about 145), but I guess i'll find out soon.

  I was going to take her out today, but the chicken factor prevailed.  It's 10 to 15 out there today, and I'm just not feeling up to that yet! 

14

Daniel B:

I commend your prudence in picking your weather.  There is no shame in leaving the boat on the trailer if your gut is telling you that you ought to leave it there.  There is, however, much shame in making your wife a widow, your children fatherless, and your mother and father bereft of offspring, so let there be no "Chicken Factor" involved, only prudence.  <;-)

Keeping working your way up the Beufort Scale by degrees.  As your head gains experience, your gut will settle down some.  Also remember it's easier to tuck in a reef ashore before setting out, and then shake it out later if it proves unnecessary, than to try to get a reef in with the boat dancing around in the whitecaps and the wind trying to snatch the hair off your head.

 

Shoemaker:

Since I didn't actually sail with yard and boom attached with clove hitches, I can't say for sure whether the extra turn of the rolling hitch would be necessary to resist slippage along the yard.  Since the angle of pull once hoisted is somewhat up toward the peak, you should at least make the first turn of the halyard's clove hitch toward the peak.  A clove hitch whose standing (loaded) part isn't more or less perpendicular to whatever it's being made up around resists slipping toward the pull better if the first turn is in that direction.  A rolling hitch (as done on a spar, pole or piling) is basically a clove hitch with an extra turn in that direction to better resist the slippage.

As for the block at the downhaul, sure, that will work, and likely reduce the friction some.  Just make sure there's enough distance between the boom and the downhaul cleat along the mast for it.  If you leave the block on the boom, be careful that it doesn't get into a position where it could damage the sail when you furl it up.

In a pinch, good, stout paracord could work for the lashings.  I know it's nylon, and therefore somewhat stretchy, but it holds knots well.  If you set it up good and tight (use toggles of some sort to pull the loose ends snug at each step), the stretch might not be an issue.  In fact, it might actually help in being able to get things good and tight as you go and to keep the finishing knot from untying itself.  I might try that, myself; I've not been very happy with the stiff, somewhat slick, 1/8" braided polyester stuff I've been able to obtain so far.

.....Michael

15

  Michael, I hope you come back to see this little follow-up.  I'm driving myself nuts with the question of exactly how you did this (from your earlier post):

"Halyard and downhaul are attached to the spars using lashings of 1/8" braided stuff with loops in the middle, a "soft" loop for the halyard..."

A CLC instructor refers to the same sort of setup when he wrote to me recently:

"You can use a shackle (twist pin or snap) to attach the halyard to a loop of line on the yard.  Your loop can be made either with a lashing (clove & rolling hitches)..."

I've decided that's what I want to do, and I've learned how to do several kinds of hitches, but how is the loop for the halyard connection incorporated into whatever knots are used for the lashing?  Am I overthinking this? Just tie a loop with an overhand knot and roll it into a rolling hitch somewhere?  Or what?

Another thanks in advance...

 

16

Michael -    

Follow-up to the follow-up...btw, I did see the dropbox photo of your halyard connection, but I can't tell how you did the lashing w/ soft loop...

17

I used small Alpine Butterfly knots for the loops in the lashings.  See here:

https://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php

...for one way to tie it.  I have another method I like better, but what's shown there would work okay for small loops in small line.  I know: I must be some kind of knot head.  <;-)

Anyway, I put a loop in the middle of maybe 2' of the 1/8" braided polyester stuff.  Snug it up and work it until the loop size maybe 1" or a little better.  I then placed the loop on the side of the yard where I wanted to attach the hallyard, passed both ends around to the opposite side, and set up double overhand knot (not one turn atop the other, but two turns next to each other) really hard.  The two ends then went back around to the loop side with another double overhand knot next to the loop.  The the two ends were crossed back over again, only this time over top all the previous passes to the other side of the two passes already made, another double overhand there.  Both ends then come back around next to the loop, where another double overhand is placed, with another double overhand on top of that (looks sort of like a double square knot) with the last part set up really, really hard in the hopes that it won't untie itself.

This will end up looking like three passes all around with a whole bunch of overhand knots along the way, with the loop sticking out of the middle on one side (the top) of the yard.

Now the halyard can be bent to this little loop with a sheet bend.  Pass the halyard through the loop, take it around both parts of the loop, tuck the halyard back under itself there, and then snug it up so it can't slip back out.  You can tuck the halyard under itself twice to make a double sheet bend for extra security.

Making sense?  I wish I had better photos....

.....Michael

18

   Am happy to say, mateys, that 3rd time out with the Skerry balanced lug was a charm. Winds were 5 to 10 on a sunny Friday afternoon.  I pre-rigged while in the parking lot, mainly halyard, downhaul, and mainsheet, all set up.  Then I lowered the sail, bunched it up on the port side, as that would be the side that the halyard would be pulling the sail up from.  I'll tell you, it was a good thing I pre-rigged, because the first time doing it, it took me a minute, but it dawned on me I'd had it all bass-ackwards - sail would have been facing the wrong way.  Anywho, I rowed out for some sea-room, raised sail, tightened downhaul full out, and we were off - the primary feature of the whole enterprise being that the Skerry sailed like boats are supposed to sail.  Maybe better.  Tacked with ease, like it wanted to.  Jibes were ho-hum.  The biggest challenge was constantly reminding self that forward means right, and back means left - with the push/pull tiller. For some reason my brain keeps insisting that forward means left, which it ain't, as I discovered numerous times.  I'm close to putting some placards on the vertical supports of the bow seat, explaining as much.  Meanwhile, we were certainly sailing.  On a few of the close reach's, the gps read over 5 mph.  That's awfully decent in my opinion for a 150 lb homemade sailboat.  All the hours of spreading thickened epoxy along what seemed miles of seams, during cold winter nights, suddenly became worth it, many times over.  

19

Here's a photo link tho not sure it'll work - - 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/n8N9oGbb8PukHkT2A   

20

Hey Daniel, et al,

I'm super jazzed to hear about your very successful outing.  I hope that gives courage to other folks as they mentally prepare for their sea trials.  Thanks for posting such an eloquent testimonial.  The Tenderly (XP) is on my short list of "Next Boats". 

The tiller extension on the Skerry does add another twist (literally) to sailing, whereas the Tenderly has the more straightforward, yet still confusing to some "direct drive" tiller arrangement.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.  After a few more hours, your muscle memory will start to kick in and you won't even have to think about it.  Now if you hand the tiller over to a newbie, that's another story.

Another factor that all us "lugheads" (thanks Gramps) should be grateful for (full disclosure, my EP had a lug) is that the mast is unstayed - hence no more strings than what you need to pull to go sailing.  I'm almost done rigging my PMD with the gunter-sloop rig and there are a few more strings to deal with.  I made that decision knowing full well I was adding complexity, but I felt it was worth it for the upwind performance.  I rig my mast laying down and when I raise it vertically, all those strings start to wrap and twist like a maypole.  It takes me a few minutes to sort out the shrouds so I can even let go of the mast and attach the forestay.