I am absolutely fascinated by these canoes! How long will it take for them to be set up as a kit? Any guess how much the kit might cost? Or plans? Plans would work too!!
I was at CLC the other day and heard that only one waterlust canoe was sold so far. I wonder who bought it and if he/she can report about their building experience. I am currenly building a Petrel Play, the waterlust canoe is scheduled to become my next project in spring.
If just ONE so far (really??) I'm guessing my name's on it.
Be patient waiting for reports on a'building though, it'll be a few months before I can commit to starting this.
Reading my prior posts you'll understand why; I've dreamed of building something like Ian Oughtred's Magregor for close to 35 years. As I approach 70 something with a little more stability, not to mention in kit form, is a more attractive proposition.
Rest assured friend, you're not alone in this... not at all alone!
I e-mailed & called (left a message at least) John Harris, then the folks at Waterlust no more than a day or two after their first appearance here but as yet haven't heard anything in reply.
That Waterlust partners with various organizations to promote their goals ought to be 100% in line with what CLC'S set out to do.
I'd dearly love to know more about whether (WHEN??) they'll be making a new product announcement about this design.
I, of course, do not speak in any way for CLC, but please keep in mind that it's one thing to design/build a couple of canoes in the controlled environment of the shop at CLC. It's a quantum leap difference to making those designs available for general consumption, with the customer service and hopefully bulletproof documentation that accompanies them. If you've read any of John's writing, you know how much of an investment he makes in the manuals for any given boat. That investment itself appears to be the tipping point whether a design makes it in the catalog or just becomes an conversation piece on the website.
Being interested in the Nanoship myself and having one CLC boat under my belt, I'm wondering what it might take to become a "beta builder". This with the understanding that the technical documentation might not only be unavailable, but I could conceivably be asked to provide some of the content for the aforementioned documentation. An very interesting concept and a very daunting challenge.
CaptainSkully there's a couple of points you raise that bear on this discussion.
Certainly John's 'investment' in the whole concept and exectution of his entire operation has to affect how he approaches adding a new product to the top end. I admire his achievement in bringing kits such as these to a wider audience than might otherwise be served by companines making plans available, or the materials from which one can make a dream come true, if one has the wherewithal to make it happen on one's own.
(I took that route back some 44 years ago. Had I known then what I know now that craft might still be around!)
There must of course be sufficient market to make new additions viable candidates but at the same time by making our community aware of one-time 'one-off' efforts (such as the Waterlust 'twins' and the Skerry Raid project among others described on the Developments page) with an invitation to contact CLCBoats (if one has an interest in any of them) the motivation surely must include an element of intent to survey what level of interest there may be in them?
That the Skerry Raid page mentions it being a Beta project supports your thought on how these might yet reach us! I've had plans for a couple of Iain Oughtred designs stowed away for several years yet that first experience of 'from-scratch' (along with other pursuits demanding of time and energy) make me too aware of what it takes to undertake such a project without assistance. Having pre-cut parts available, knowing the same parts have been assembled to yield seaworthy craft, is the keystone.
My posts to this forum are intended to show my interest in and support of John and his dreams, as well as my own.
I am in no hurry. I still haven't even put in my order for a NE Dory yet. Dory 1st then I was thinking these canoes would be a great 2nd project!
>>>>the motivation surely must include an element of intent to survey what level of interest there may be in them?>>>>
Absolutely it does!
Some of what we do here is shared online simply because we're small-boat nuts, and just want to have a conversation about it, not make any money. But if we detect enough interest we might undertake the extravagant documentation required for a current-generation CLC manual. (We're into the six figures in development costs for the Teardrop Camper. It took five of us six months to create that manual. It seems to have been worth it.)
Since the big cost is the illustrated step-by-step manual, there are in-between cases where we'll just offer plans suited to intermediate-to-advanced builders. That includes some real oddballs like Madness-the-proa, the Faering Cruiser, and the soon-to-be-available-as-plans Nesting Expedition Dinghy and Autumn Leaves Canoe Yawl. All of those designs were either done just for fun, and we don't expect to ever get our money back, or the naval architecture was commissioned by a paying client.
The Outrigger Junior has generated such excitement that there was never any doubt that it would become a "full selection," with the soup-to-nuts instruction manual and so on. It's currently hung up awaiting completion of its manual. Ditto NanoShip.
So many boats, so little time (and money)...
An illustration like this doesn't auto-generate in CAD software! Somebody has to DO it (our colleague Jay in this case).
(Click to embiggen and marvel at the detail.)
Isn't this streching "canoe" a bit far towards double ended sail boat?
What a nice boat! I'd buy one :-) Nice drawing, Jay.
Grumpy, that's no more a canoe than I am. On the other hand, with the self-bailing cockpit and the low sides to accommodate the sliding seat rowing rig, it ends up feeling sort of like a sit-on-top kayak with a sailing rig, all on steroids.
Laszlo
John, CLC said (in part):
<< there are in-between cases where we'll just offer plans suited to intermediate-to-advanced builders.>>
Heck YEAH!
Where do I sign up for a set for one of the Waterlust Twins then!
With its inboard daggerboard & that sweet Hobie drive it's a little more refined than the MacGregor 'stretchable' plans of Iain Oughtred. Iain's inspirations have captivated me for many years (the marine ply I still have I bought in 1990 it seems) while maybe requiring a little more water-wise experience than I can yet claim.
Woodworking & messing with epoxy are more my kind of entertainment so undertaking such an endeavor as the Waterlust crew's completed so nicely doesn't scare me one iota! Tell me how much you want & the check'll be in the mail!
One of my other "hobbies" is building wooden clocks. Clayton Boyer has an interesting business model. In order to buy one of his more complicated plans, you must first have shown you can build one of his entry-level models. Then and only then will he even sell you the plans for one of the more advanced designs. This is a self correcting business model which I'm sure greatly reduces the amount of customer service he has to provide. What he does provide is excellent BTW.
Maybe in order to buy plans for any project that has not been fully developed, one must have first build one of CLC boats that comes with a manual. I know that having built an EP, I have almost no doubts about my ability to build the PM.
"It's [Outrigger Junior] currently hung up awaiting completion of its manual. Ditto NanoShip." - John, CLC
This is some of the best/worst news I've ever seen on this forum. Best, because this is the focus of my "next-boat-itis". Worst, for the same reason.
I love the Expedition Canoe and the Wanderlust videos of the first two models in action. But I've got to admit that Autumn Leaves is the expedition boat that really appeals to me. It looks as comfy for camp-cruising as Pocketship, yet it should be easier to row in a pinch. OK, maybe not as good for rowing as the Southwester Dory, but perhaps safer in coastal waters (or the Great Lakes)? Certainly a bit easier to sleep and read and cook onboard.
Who wants to go on a two-week raid around and about Lake Superior's Apostle Islands next year?
CaptainSkully said:
<<Maybe in order to buy plans for any project that has not been fully developed, one must have first build one of CLC boats that comes with a manual.>>
Well I for one emphatically hope that's not a suggestion John takes too close to heart!
Where plans vs. kits are involved I'd have to believe John's been in business long enough to allow Caveat Emptor to rule. For customer support behind well-developed, manual-included kits to be realistically provided the costs are expected to be part of the price paid.
Plans on the other hand, available at significantly less cost but also with more to be provided by the prospective builder, might be purchased merely to serve as an obejct of study. Taking a set through to a successful build & launch ought not come with a builder prepared to do much more than perhaps enlist support from members to this or other forums for questions that might arise.
I'd be hard pressed to embark on a full-blown project intended only to serve as a stepping stone to another presenting more challenge but also better suited to fulfilling my desires. At my stage in life I'm all too reluctant to acquire more 'stuff' for what it takes in space, time, and energy to deal with going forward. (I'd have undertaken assembly of an Annapolis Wherry had I not determined a year ago it's a little too large for my needs besides not being adaptable to sail.)
John's posted to a Facebook group that CNC panels to build an Expedition canoe can be obtained from CLC now. No instructions will accompany them however so I assume it's up to a prospective builder to determine wheter such an option presents more of a challenge to their abilities than they wish to undertake.
I've not yet seen anything further on this but now that he's back from Port Townsend's Wooden Boat Festival perhaps he'll expand on this soon.
As I've had several sheets of BS1088 ply stashed for years (literally!) I enquired if perhaps full-size patterns (printed on dimensionally stable film media) might be derived from their CNC files that I then could use to make progress towards building one of these beauties without having to purchase pre-cut panels. If others of you expressing interest in this endeavor feel similarly I encourage you to let John know your interest in patterns vs. CNC'd panels.
I saw the Canoes when they were first watered and I immediately fell in love with them. Is it true that you can order the cut panels now without instruction manual? I only have a Passagemaker under my belt and I am not sure if I could build the canoes without instructions. Maybe they should just put the sequence of things on two pages and where which part is supposed to go. Maybe it would also help to make the pictures of the webcam available that filmed the construction of the prototypes. Another option would be a building workshop in Annapolis for people who are interested. I think in a week one could proceed far enough to be able to finish things by oneself after that. I am definetly interested in buying a kit of the Waterlust canoes.
I have really been enjoying watching the videos being posted by the Waterlust folks sailing these canoes. In nearly all they have a, I guess you would say pilot sitting in the cockpit. Plus a second person setting on the decking behind the pilot with their feet in the cockpit. This got me thinking, the biggest drawback for me on this boat design is the fact that it is designed for a single occupant. How difficult or how practical would it be to stretch the boat out a bit making the cockpit long enough to fit two? How would this affect handling? I really don’t think my wife would ever have the desire to learn how to pilot her own craft. But if I can make seating for her this design just might win out over the NE Dory for me.
Had a nice long phone conversation with Dillon Majoros Friday last.
I suggest interested parties stay tuned here for more info on topics raised in this thread. We'll know more pretty soon....
Ok I am officially excited now
Keep the excitement alive Mikeflys, and that patience is a virtue!
We're closer every day to our goal.