WD 12 deck & hull alignment problems

Builder's Forum
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2 Brits living in VA/DC area just commenced 2 WD12s - all seemed to being going fine until the tack welding stage. Completed it last night, however upon inspection this morning it looks like I did it with my wrong hand whilst wearing an eyepatch over my good eye! The hull to sheer joints are spot on however the deck to sheers (fore deck) are very uneven and have several gaps, the foredeck appears to have "sunk" away from the sheers worst point 1/4 ". Do I need to start again ie break the welds and re-set or is there an alternative, or will it all just "sort it's self out" (ie filling and sanding - not my preferred method) at a later stage.

Also hull #2 seems to have developed a warp where the deck is attached to the forward shaping form it looks like a dimple (around 2' diameter) and is a very visual dent. Any advice most appreciated for frustrated Brit WD builders! 

 

2

Pictures would be a big help.

You can always fill & sand any problem away with stitch & glue, but the best is to undo  the tacks. What puzzles me is why the problems happened. On boat 1, did the pieces just slide away from each other? That could indicate insufficient beveling.

On boat 2, where's the dimple? Center of the deck or left/right? Centered on the form or fore/aft? 

Laszlo

 

3

Laszlo,

Thank you for the swift responce. Boat 2 we have cut the offending wire and the "dimple" has gone, there is now a 3/4" between the bottom of the deck and the form, the deck looks better however is there likely to be a knock on effect further down stream? 

Boat 1 remains unchanged. Intend a partial dis-mantle tomorrow.Not sure if the pieces slid away perhaps the wires were not tight enough? However I feel as though I have to be far too heavy handed with the panels to make them fit. How on Earth did you manage it on your own we seem to be constantly bending and wiring under tension.All panels throroughly bevelled. Happy to post photos - but, how do you do it?

thanks again

Pirate. 

 

 

4

Pirate,

One thing to keep in mind is that the forms are there to guide the deck. The wood, being a natural material, will have its own ideas of how it wants to bend. Getting a good compromise that both can live with may involve some finagling. As you can see in the picture (which, if I did everything right, will lead to a larger one when clicked), there are gaps where the deck & sheer panels meet at the form, as well as a non-symmetric number of wires. The main thing I was aiming for was that the forms' corners were the same distance from the hull edge of the sheer panel on each side and that the deck hugged the rounded part of the form symmetrically.

I also found that wrapping a ratchet strap around the deck exactly at the form and gently tightening the strap helps with keeping the deck bent while adjusting  the wires.

 

 

END OF BOAT POST, PICTURE POSTING TUTORIAL FOLLOWS

To post photos, first upload your image files to a web server. There are commercial sites, such as PhotoBucket & Flickr, that will let you do this for free. Or if your ISP gives you your own website you can use that. At any rate, once your image files are on the web, view them with your favorite browser. Get to a view that shows only the image, no adverts or other features. The URL in the address bar should then be something ending in your file's name. Select & copy the URL from the address bar. When you post here, clcik on the teeny-tiny tree icon at the bottom of the message area. That will bring up a dialog box which has a space in it for the URL. Paste it in there and click on the dimensions field. If everything has gone well, you will see the image's dimensions and you can click on the insert button. If you don't see the dimensions, something is wrong and the image won't post. Usually the problem is that the URL points to the web page which contains the image, not to the image itself.

Finally, the maximum image width displayed here is 500 pixels. Wider images are truncated to 500 pixels, cutting off the right side of the image. To get around this Procrustrean behavior, you can link to a larger image using the insert link buttons. 

Laszlo

 

5

Laszlo,

Many thanks for your advice have spent a god deal of time finagling on both boats and dimple removed from #2 and have achieved a much better deck to hull fit on boat 1, not quite the "airtight" seal you seem to have achieved in your photo but a distinct improvement on first attempt.

Am very impressed with your graphite/epoxy finish on your hull could you please pass details on materials /mix etc or is a trade secret?

As for the URL photo down load etc etc many thanks for the advice. I am an IT pygmy and did not understand a word of it! Have put Mermaid (a photographer! by chnace) on the case- however getting her out of the basement away from WD's proving tricky

Regards

Pirate.   

 

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Pirate,

You've found the secret to this boat - taking your time and not going to the next step til your happy with the current one. Don't worry if the edges are not perfect, it won't affect the handling qualities. You'll still have fun.

If the perfectionist streak has taken hold, though, much of the perfection has to do with the beveling. Since you're in the VA/DC area, once the Inauguration madness has settled down, you could make a pilgrimage to the CLC showroom in Annapolis, meet the fine folks and get their advice, as well as seeing the demo boats.

The mix for this boat was equal volumes of graphite and mixed epoxy/hardener. I've used other mixes before, including some with cab-o-sil, but this is holding up pretty well so far.

Laszlo

 

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Laszlo,

Thank you, Not convinced I have actually found the secret to building this boat(s) but continue to blunder on regardless. Thank you for the advice on the hull finish, however far more (very) basic detail required! ie - graphite - powder, liquid, paint? where do I get it from etc etc the only graphite I am aware of is in my tennis racquet or my skis! More (basic) details please - apologies fior the lack of understanding we are 2 kin nations divided only by a common language. 

Your quite correct inauguration fever has taken hold here and we did make the pilgrimage to CLC in Dec to pick up the WD kits in person - most impressive.  

PIrate

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Pirate,

And, in addition to Winston's observation, you & I are both using American English as our second languages :-)

The graphite powder, as all good things for boatbuilding, is available from CLC here. The six-ounce can is plenty for one boat, possibly even enough for both. Using it is simplicity itself.

First, thoroughly mix up a batch of epoxy and hardener. I like to mix it 3 ounces at a time.Then, slowly pour it into a container holding an equal volume of graphite powder, stopping frequently to stir the mix. It's sort of like mixing the milk with the cocoa powder when making hot chocolate from scratch. If you add the powder to the milk, you get a nasty lumpy mixture, but adding milk to the powder gives you a smooth paste. Same for the graphite and epoxy.

When it's completely mixed, pour some onto the boat's bottom and spread it around with a short-napped foam roller. This will be very quick. Repeat as needed. Once the entire bottom is painted with the mix, tip it out with a dry foam brush to get rid of the air bubbles. Since you willl be doing 2 boats at once, you should have less problem with waste and might be able to eke out both boats from a single can.

If you want to sand between the layers, you need to let the stuff cure hard. On the other hand, if you want to simply put on a second coat, you only need to wait until it is no longer tacky. Sanding with #220 paper will get rid of the orange peel texture that such a thick mix develops. It also kills the gloss, makes it pencil lead gray and make you look like a coal miner. I didn't sand mine.

Two coats should be plenty, I can't imagine needing more than 3. The stuff is very messy. It's a very fine powder which gets blown around by the slightest breeze, turns everything black and is very difficult to clean up. The epoxy mix is also messy. Be sure that you have everything masked and covered before you start, have lots of gloves on hand and clean up and drops on the boat immediatley with a paper towel.

Finally, I used the fine line tape from CLC to mask the boundaries, with the tops of the stitch holes on the side panels as my guides.

Good luck,

Laszlo

PS - here's even more information about graphite/epoxy bottoms for boats

 

 

 

9

Laszlo,

Nice to see that you recognised Sir Winston's wise words. Where do you hail from?

Many thanks for the advice re graphite mix etc it will be most useful during the final stages. 

A long day today forging ahead with much progress made. Are you happy to remain as an electronic/distant advisor as we strive to complete our dual WD project. I am sure we will need advice again soon!

Regards & thanks

Pirate 

 

 

 

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Pirate,

Yes, Sir Winston was wiser than most. I'll leave my origins as an exercise for the readers :-) Hint - my first language was one of the finno-ugric family.

I'd be happy to give you lots of free advice (worth double what you pay for it!), probably more than you want. In case you haven't found it yet, there's also my WD12 building website. It's being updated daily at the moment as I collect, sort and post all the construction pictures that I took last year.

Laszlo

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Warning, I go off-topic.  Again.

I'd be cheating if I guessed whence you cometh, L. I worked with a Laszlo some years back.

This guy was an enthusiastic student of the mystical orgins of that very same finno-ugric language of which you speak.  His last name matched that of a castle which is now a tourist destination. He told a fascinating tale of how his family happened to vacate the joint.  Seems they had an Inauguration Day of sorts, all about Change just like the one we celebrated yesterday.  The new leader had great Hope, just as we now do, in the intrinsic ability of politicians and apparatchiks to manage one's affairs better than one can oneself.  These agents of Change felt it best that they separate all citizens from their property, including poor L's family, who hiked across the border with a few possessions, being the sort who always oppose Hope and Change. 

So I recuse myself from this round of Jeopardy. Plus, I'm taking a break. I'm Hungry.

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Hey Camper,

Whatever one's politics,  the American way of a quadrennial bloodless revolution is a much better solution than the one which sent so many of us Laszlos hiking across the border. God bless the writers of the US Constitution.

Laszlo

PS - cute final reference :-) 

 

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Amen to that.  And my apologies: my post crossed the line. None of us are here for politics, and I promise not to do it again.