I prefer to build without staples. I understand they allow one to progress faster since each strip can be solidly held in place while the glue dries. I mostly use tape (3M rough surface) to pull the new strip down tight against the last one. The general technique is to let the glue set up, then remove the tape before adding the next row, which limits the number of steps one can do in a day. Now, I’m not in a hurry, so that’s not a deal breaker, but sometimes I would like to make faster progress. So I’m wondering if anyone has just left the tape in place from the previous strip and then glue and tape the next one in? Once the glue sets then the tape can be cut off flush to the strip so there just remains the small piece between the strips. Obviously this will leave short areas without a good glue joint. I wonder mostly though if that small bit would be visible, or gum up sanding, or some other ill effect. Or perhaps the tape can be pulled out of the joint.
Hi Steve,
i would not leave tape between strips. you will end up seeing it. you can also move fast with tape and no staples. i have done it.
when i am working with tape and i need to put another strip on top of a taped strip, i cut the part of the tape over the edge but leave the tape on the face of the wood. usually between the time i would be doing this, the wood glue has already dried enough that, between the glue and the tape that is remaining, it all holds.
when i am working fast, i am still going to be alternating sides, and there is often some fitting or othe cutting work to be done before you are ready to glue such that by the time you are ready to cut the part of the tape that overlaps, it is easily 30 minutes or more. for thinly applied wood glue, that is pretty good.
obviously if there is something under a lot of tension, you may have to wait a bit longer…but that is not so often.
you can also experiment with different tape types and it also depends if you are working with cove and bead or beveled edges. for beveled edges, you can leave tape and remove it if it is a strong strapping tape. this tape will pull out of the space and is strong enough not to break when you pull it out. and the little gap of non-glue would not impact anything. but that process won’t work with blue tape…which, for me, is the default tape i use except for where i need a lot of tension. it also wont work with cove and bead becase the tape would not pull out of a bent hole that is created in this type of joinery.
anyway, my experience tells me that staples is not faster. but with tape, you will need to experiment a bit to find the balance of the the type of tape, your taping technique, and your glue and speed (and how much it allows the glue to set) to get the right combination.
Thanks Howard, that makes sense. I started to play around with it and also realized leaving the tape over the edge will interfere with beveling the edge to fit the next strip. I do like the idea of cutting the part that goes over the edge and leaving the sides.
I also go side to side and between that and leaving things sit for an hour or so seems to allows things to set up enough to just remove the tape. I just need to slow down a bit and enjoy the journey!
I use the green Scotch Rough Surface (2060) tape and it works well. It has a very small bit of stretch and sticks well without leaving residue.
hi steve,
i looked up your tape and seems similar to the blue tape i use - basically a paper tape and will rip relatively easy if you pull too tight. and so you are probably using it in low tension situations and if doing tight work with little in the way of gaps, your glue should set relatively well.
since you confirmed you are doing a beveling edge, your beveling plane will easily cut this if it is sharp so you can use that to cut off the tape that would be ‘between’ the strips. tape can gumm up a blade a bit, just remember to clear it out…or precut.
my sense is, generally, the faster you can move, the less tension/twist that is involved…and the temp tape, even if cut down to not go over the edge, will hold. the pieces with a lot of twist or tension typically need the most complex beveling which takes time.
also, fwiw, since i bevel cut my strip builds, i generally am bisecting the bevel. so for the strip gettting placed, its ‘mating’ edge is going to get half the bevel allocated to it…or basically, its going to get worked prior to it being glued, which may be why i have a bit more time between strips.
fwiw, i do use the nick schade robo plane on the edge if possible, but i still often end up doign a small angle on the strip i am appling.
h
Yes it’s very similar to the blue tape, though I can get pretty good tension on it without it breaking. It’s hard to find in the narrow (~1”) width. The only local place with that was Michael’s. Lowe’s, Walmart, etc have the wider (~2”).
I also use the robo plane and it seems to work well. My only real complaint is it fills up with shavings quickly, though it’s easy to clean out. I just have to keep an eye on it. The blade tensioner screw also likes to back itself off periodically. When it stops cutting it’s one of those two. I supplement that with a Stanley 79 rabbeting plane which I really like. I’ll have to see if they cut through the tape without gumming up. That’s would be a good solution.
So far I’m a big fan of square edge strips. The cove strips are fragile and it’s easy to break off an edge. It’s also easier to bring more pressure to pull strips together. I guess I need to see how it sands out to see if it truly works better for me.
Steve, leaving the tape in place is in my view a very bad idea - it will show through - I know I managed to leave a bit behind and it bugs me no end. I use the green frog tape so its pretty obvious.
For speedier staple-less stripping I used the hot glue method on my dark star baidarka as promoted by Rob Macks of Laughing Loon Kayaks, and demonstrated by Nick Schade in one of his videos. It’s really quick, keeps the strips super tight and aligned. I use tape to do an initial grab while the wood glue starts to set and the hot glue hardens up, them remove the tape. This takes a couple of minutes. Where needed you can use some hot glue strips on the outside to keep things tight, and even hot glue some strips across tricky curves.
The end result was a really tight and easy to level surface.
I used square edge strips for this boat and found that using a good sharp block plane I only needed to pare away a few degrees to get a good tight fit. Rob Macks suggests that pre-bevelling using a table saw to 5 degrees would eliminate most hand planing, though not having a table saw this was no an option for me.
It is interesting to see someone else suggest prebeveling. I have been using this technique recently. I cut some test strips at 5, 8, 10, 12, 15 degrees which are used to gauge what saw setting to use. Any inside gaps (which are generally minimal) get filled with microballons before the inside glass is applied. I would never suggest this for a canoe but nobody ever sees the inside of a kayak
Yes the downside of pre bevelling is the creation of gaps. I wasn’t 100% happy with the inside for various reasons, including a couple of over bevelled strips so I ended up using some 4oz carbon/kevlar in the centre section, no real weight penalty over 4oz s glass, plus it looks cool. I calculated the amount of resin needed so I didn’t end up over saturating it.
That looks great! Thanks for the warning about the tape. I may have to give the hybrid idea with the hot glue a try.
Wow. That looks great. Did you vacuum bag it? But that boat deserves a carbon fiber cockpit rim like this one
Wow. What boat is that. Is it a K1? From the picture looks like max beam is well aft of cockpit? Or is it just an optical illusion?
Sorry, nothing exciting It is just the bow seat in a 19’ tandem.
Great thread here with good suggestions. I’d add a couple of things not yet discussed.
Glue choice - I use Titebond original but Titebond 2 has faster cure time. I see on the Kayak Building that someone is doing a balsa strip build with thin CA glue. I have used CA on S&G builds so I could remove the wires prior to filleting but have not tried it with strip builds. No doubt use of CA instead of PVA would speed the build assuming you have enough working time with CA to get the strip in place.
Forces on the strip - The required clamping time for PVA glues is only 30-60 minutes if there are no forces on the joint. With strip building, we have to clamp longer because depending upon the shape of the boat, there may be significant force (twist and bend) required to hold the strip properly in place. Anything that you can do to decrease those forces will decrease the amount of time that tape/clamps must be used, speeding assembly. There are a number of ways that you can do this.
First, make sure that you are using a pliable wood. My last strip build was an Aluetesque which has a very complicated bow shape. For cosmetics I used Alaskan Yellow which is about 25% heavier and noticeably more stiff than WRC. Had I used WRC, stripping the bow would have been significantly easier.
Another way to decrease forces on the joint is to use thinner strips. My first two strip builds used 1/4” strips. On the third build (Mystery), I used 3/16” for the hull and 1/8” for the deck. The thinner strips are very much easier to twist and bend, so require less clamping time. I would not advocate the 1/8” strips unless you are building a lightweight race boat.
Lastly, consider use of a heat gun to bend/twist the strips as needed for a better fit. This is something that I had not done much prior to the Aluetesque build, but was absolutely necessary for that boat.
Good points. I haven’t thought of CA glue. I use it here and there but it would be interesting to see if it could be used as the primary adhesive. Anyone done that?
I’ve had no great success with a heat gun but I know others have. I’ve used a steam clothes iron and that works well. I put the strip on the floor and clamp it down roughly to the curve I want then slowly run the steam iron over it. I’ve also used a full blown steamer setup but that’s probably overkill.
And yes, the wood makes a difference. Even within cedar varieties I’ve found some to be stiff and brittle and others (like what I’m using now) to be pretty pliable.
Oh and cool boat!!