Rhode Runner Build

Greetings All!

I am new to CLC, and the boat building world, and recently started my first build with the Rhode Runner.  My family and I have a shoreline camp on a small pond, and the lure of a classic runabout was too strong to pass up.  I’m hopeful that my experience as a woodworking teacher will assist me as I learn about building a boat.  I’m also hopeful that others tuned in to this forum will help me get through any problems along the way.

I’m a couple of weeks in, and I’ve epoxy bonded the longer lengths as well as built up the frames with the necessary doublers and cleats.  I have loosely stitched (per plan instructions) the bottom panel along the center seam and began attaching the bottom to the frames.  However, there is a ¼” to â…œ” gap along the centerline of the bottom.  I am using ratchet straps looped around each of the frames to close up the gap and tighten the bottom to the frames.  I’m now able to wrap the copper wire stitches and hope the panels won’t move after removing the ratchet straps.  Is this normal to need to work the panels tighter, or was I supposed to leave things “loose” with that centerline gap?  Or, was it too loose when I “loosely stitched” the bottom panels to begin with?

 

Secondly, when attaching frame 1 to the bottom panels, the frame wants to tilt toward the bow rather than following the stitch line created by the pre-drilled holes.  Should I spray the bottom hull panels to get the panel to bend into the shape needed for the frame, should I sand and shape the frame to accommodate the angles needed, or should I use spreaders to get the frame into place.

 

Thank you, in advance, for any insights and direction for me to consider!

 

Borntorun!

   Previous post was from me. Bubblehead

   You can e-mail me for further correspondence. (See the end of my previous post for address.) 

For the bulkhead hatch I cut a pretty big square hole (big enough to get my shoulders squeezed through), with radiused rounded corners. I just went and measured: my hatch cutout is 16" high by 24" wide. The cutout center piece forms the hatch itself. This means that you must start your saw in a small slit, not even a drill hole.  You can use a dremel saw, or small line of 1/8" drill holes or whatever to get the jigsaw blade through the plywood to start the saw cut. The hatch board rests on a backing ring about 2" wide - 1 inch glued to the front (forward) side of the frame/bulkhead, the other inch forming a backing rim around the inside of the cutout area. You can probably salvage enough pieces of wood from the unused portions of the kit ply to make the hatch ring. SAVE ALL YOUR SCRAP WOOD THAT IS OF ANY DECENT SIZE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DISPOSED OF IT! You need 2 pieces about 26" x 2" and 2 pieces about 14" x 2". The hatch is held in place with 8 delrin ovoid toggles. A thin foam rubber rubber gasket forms the seal - it is compressible enough that the toggles can be pivoted to hold the hatch firmly closed.  Were the boat to capsize, the orientation of the hatch means that it is pressed shut by water pressure. I put a cross of 1" x 2" wooden stiffeners on the back side of the hatch, running side to side and top to bottom, just short enough/far enough from the edge to clear the hatch ring. Probably not necessary, but I'm a former submariner, so I'm used to hatches that can take some real submergence pressure.

The alignment on the drawing below will probably get screwed up on transmission, but might help.

                                 Aft (boat) side

                               Toggle is thru bolted

                                  #########||#### toggle

Hatch  <<<===========   ====||=====================>>>Bulkhead

Gasket this side ============||===== Glued on this side to bulkhead

 under hatch              backing ring              

                              forward (bow void) side

And as an aside, putting the first coat of sealing epoxy on all the frames and sanding them prior to initial assembly is something I'd do as a matter of course. Not worth totally disassebling all your work to do this, but consider it for all future parts. This just provides a nice smooth foundation for further finishing in the boat, and is much easier while the pieces are flat. This is just a "trick" I've learned from experience: If you don't have to worry about being able to bend a part during assembly, or even if the bend is moderate, I always pre-coat parts. You might feel like pre-coating is slowing you down in the beginning, but the time savings (and improved finish quality) will become apparent later. Some worry that joints might be slightly less strong as you are joining already "sealed" wood, but I have faith that the bond of new epoxy to even well cured (but sanded) epoxy is more than strong enough. Try to tear apart a joint formed this way as compared to one made with raw wood - I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference, and the wood itself will rip apart before the epoxy in all cases anyway.

   

Excellent!  Thank you.  Your insights put me at ease and I will continue to work the hull to get it, and the frames, into place where things belong.  The ratchet straps worked great at pulling the bottom panels together with virtually no gaps.  And I’ve snugged down the copper wire stitches so that everything now is tight.  Happily, nothing moved when I removed the ratchet straps!  

 

I’d appreciate more on modifying frame 2 to create access while still maintaining watertight integrity.  Additionally, I’ll be adding a block behind the bow to accommodate a bow eye.  Good call!

   I built a RR that just finished its second summer on the water. I also have built a NE dory, a Chess 17 and Shearwater Sport kayak.  The RR is a really nice boat.  A member of our yacht club here (Lake Lanier, GA) also built one.  Between the two of us we can provide you with many insights and recommendations.  Being a Pro-Kit, there is plenty of room for questions, interpretation and customization.

Before I forget to say it, right now (!) before going even one stitch further, I recommend that you consider pulling the full-bulkhead bow frame panel out of the boat and taking the time to put a hatch in it.  I can offer a design for the hatch. You can build something that will maintain floatation/watertight integrity, and yet provide sufficient access to store extra life jackets, an anchor, etc., and also to allow ease of installation for bow lights, etc.. 

I also recommend installation of a triangle-shaped backing block in the very front of the bow where the bow eye will attach.  The boat is big enough that your trailer winch can create some pretty high forces  pulling the boat up onto the trailer on a steep boat ramp, and there is much peace of mind knowing that you've reenforced the bow area for the bow eye.

I'll have many other suggestions, including battery placement, deck bilge-board layout, reenforcement under cleats, and especially offering an alternative way for making the hull-to-deck joint. Also, when to epoxy coat, glass and paint various parts for easiest construction. All these options require some modifications pretty early in the build process, should you choose to do them. We can also help with motor installation, steering, and wiring.

As to your specific questions on panel assembly, anything larger than a 1/4 inch gap (anywhere) is probably too large. 1/4 inch or less can usually be handled with filets, but closing gaps down to near zero is preferable. You can double check that there are no leftover nubs on your frames from the process of removing the parts from the plywood sheet. Always smooth them away - but don't remove any of the mating tabs! 

On the bow fit up, it will be OK to bevel the edge of the frame #1 if need be to get a good fit up.  However, CLC's CNC cutting calculations are set to allow parts like this to go in "square" without the need to bevel.  I do remember wetting the wood panels at the bow and using some force to get things bent into shape.

Bottom line for all CLC kit with regards to getting panels and parts in shape and well stitched prior to using any glue/epoxy is to do whaterver it takes to get close fit and good shape. Sanding, beveling, ratchet straps, spreaders, etc. are all OK - but do remember that CLC does an excellent job with dimensions. I was actually very surprised how well alll of the RR kit parts fit together, seeing as there are so many of them and the build is much more invovled and less forginving that something like a kayak with respect to dimensions. I recommend CA superglue for "tack welding" - it can greatly speed the process, and makes subsequent filets easier. If you use epoxy tack welds, don't make the beginner mistake of overdoing it.  The only requirement of tack welds is that they hold the boat together during the filet process.  Big lumps of epoxy make fileting much more difficult.

You can contact me at richards.home at yahoo. I can share specific advice as you progress in the build, and lots of pictures, many worth 1000 words each.

1 Like

Hello all!
I too, like the original poster, am new to CLC and boatbuilding, and have started a Rhode Runner project this month. I know this post is a bit dated, but hope some are still following it.
First off, Thanks to System (?), for the advice on the access panel on bulkhead 2. I was nearly ready to tack weld, and removing the stitches and cutting it on the bench was well worth it. Having this access to the bow makes me feel much better. But what about the rest?
Alot of my apprehension has to do with permanently sealing-off compartments in the boat, like under the cockpit soles and the aft compartments. Should I worry about gremlins taking residence in there long term? It seems like I should be installing inspection ports, drain plugs or the like.
Maybe I’m overthinking it, but my last boat, built with a balsa cored hull, built by disgruntled employees about to loose their jobs, had big issues 10 years later.
I got a look at the Peeler Skiff instruction book, and they advise against using pour-in expanding foam because of possible water retention. Where is this water coming from in a sealed compartment?
Anyone care to address my fears?
Brady

Permanently sealed compartments are a favorite discussion topic, especially when combined with foam fill. Possible water intrusion and resultant rot is the boogeyman everyone is running from.

My answer is - depends. If you have a well-sealed stiff structure that is not subject to vibration and flexure and you perform good outside inspections and maintenance, a permanently sealed compartment should be a viable choice. If the compartment has thin walls, vibrates and flexes and depends only on a layer of epoxy for internal waterproofing, access ports are probably a good idea. The right kind of foam in the right kind of compartment will also work well, but you should follow the designer’s recommendations, at least until you have enough experience to understand the results of deviating from them.

Theoretically, a properly sealed compartment will permanently keep out any water. Practically, there is no way to guarantee the longterm integrity of a sealed compartment, hence the recommendations for access ports. However, the absolutely best way to guarantee that a compartment will not stay sealed is to put a hole in it and then plug the hole with a removable plug.

Assuming that you’re sealing the compartment using coats of epoxy, the main thing that will destroy that seal is flexure. While epoxy cures wonderfully hard, it’s relatively brittle on its own. When the wood flexes as a result of vibration, impact or even the repeated thermal expansion and contraction of the air in the compartment, it will start developing micro-cracks. Over time the cracks will expand and join and the barrier to water becomes compromised.

Note that for this to become a problem, the seal on the outside of the boat has to also deteriorate to allow water to get into the wood, from where it will migrate to the closed space.

So if you want to avoid problems with permanently sealed compartments the first thing to do is to reduce flexure to the minimum possible amount. This is easily done by glassing the inside of the compartment. The glass provides tensile strength which compensates for the brittleness of just an epoxy coating. It also resists punctures.

Second, pay close attention to the outside of the compartment. Glass it, too, and make sure to repair any damage as soon as possible so water does not go in through the wood. It’s exactly the same principle as a basement - keep the water outside instead of trying to use sealants on the inside.

Foam fill is mostly useful for preventing water ingress in the event of a catastrophic breach of the compartment. It can also be used for structural support of soles. In any case, if you use foam it should be the Coast Guard approved closed cell structural stuff, not anything sold at DIY stores.

Foam’s big weakness is also flexure. Eventually it will wear down the cellular structure and even cause the foam to separate from the compartment walls. The easy way to fight this problem is the same as for the seal - use internal glass to reduce the flexure.

Another strategy is to be mindful of the compartment’s structure and the conditions that it will be exposed to. A thick-walled robust structure will flex less than a thin-walled one. So you will have better luck with a thick-walled box-like structure under a seat than a thin curved hull section.

Finally, materials count, too. CLC’s plywood cored, epoxy-encapsulated glassed structures are much more robust in terms of water resistance than commercial polyester resin and chopped mat over a balsa core. For starters, polyester resins are porous. Once the gelcoat is scratched there is no water barrier. And balsa core, while wonderfully strong in compression for its weight, is basically a dry sponge.

Hope this helps. For what it’s worth, I have a 23 year-old dinghy with 2 sealed, foam-filled compartments in the bottom and a 20 year-old kayak with an empty sealed airspace in the bow. Both are doing fine. I also have a 4 year-old kayak with vented airspaces that’s also doing fine. The trick is to understand the situation and build accordingly instead of being dogmatic.

Laszlo

Many thanks to Laszlo for the thorough and thoughtful response. It has given me quite a bit to think about.
At this point, I am leaning toward sealing empty, reinforced compartments and hoping for the best. I have a friend with a professional infrared scanning device that he uses for home inspections. We believe that under the right temperature differential conditions that we could identify problem areas if they did arise before they got worse.
Brady

Hi!

I’m thinking about building RR but have practically zero experience working with wood.
Is anyone aware of a more detailed builder log that I can follow(YouTube?) that can complement the provided instruction manual?